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Poll

Who would've you voted for during the Ukrainian presidental elections?

Petro Poroshenko
- 5 (29.4%)
Yulia Tymoshenko
- 2 (11.8%)
Oleg Lyashko
- 2 (11.8%)
Anatoly Hrytsenko
- 2 (11.8%)
Serhiy Tihipko
- 0 (0%)
Mykhailo Dobkin
- 0 (0%)
Other
- 6 (35.3%)

Total Members Voted: 17


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Author Topic: Ukrainian Crisis Discussion Thread №3: Love your Country  (Read 74050 times)

Sheb

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Re: Ukrainian Crisis Discussion Thread №3: Love your Country
« Reply #840 on: December 06, 2014, 09:54:24 am »

Well, left and right wing means a lot of different stuff anyway.

Knit tie, beyond their link to some battalion is there anything in their policies that would warrant calling them neo-nazis?
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Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Ukrainian Crisis Discussion Thread №3: Love your Country
« Reply #841 on: December 06, 2014, 09:56:04 am »

Well if Russians are idiots and believe that Eltsin's government is left, Zhirinovsky is a liberal democrat, and Ukrainian Radical party is neo-nazi.... That can't be cured
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Sheb

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Re: Ukrainian Crisis Discussion Thread №3: Love your Country
« Reply #842 on: December 06, 2014, 09:57:56 am »

Or it's just that in Russians words don't have the same meaning. A European liberal and a US liberal are too widely different things for example.
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

smjjames

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Re: Ukrainian Crisis Discussion Thread №3: Love your Country
« Reply #843 on: December 06, 2014, 10:02:18 am »

I voted other in the poll above because I don't know enough about any of them. Though Poroshenko sounded like the 'least bad' of the candidates.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Ukrainian Crisis Discussion Thread №3: Love your Country
« Reply #844 on: December 06, 2014, 10:05:12 am »

I can't stop giggling. Lyashko is a neo-nazi. Damn.

Lyashko is a masterful populist who says what is popular right now. Volunteer battalions are popular. He praises them. Increasing social spending are popular. He promises to raise that. Very anti-Russian rhetorics are popular. He uses that. And so on. He plays on the electoral field of politically uneducated people who believe that his radicalism is real and treat him like "our guy".

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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Guardian G.I.

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this means that a donation of 30 dollars to a developer that did not deliver would equal 4.769*10^-14 hitlers stolen from you
that's like half a femtohitler
and that is terrible
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miljan

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Re: Ukrainian Crisis Discussion Thread №3: Love your Country
« Reply #846 on: December 07, 2014, 07:34:53 am »

Ukrainian journalists have taken to protesting outside of the Ukrainian Parliament buildings as they're upset at a new government ministry, which deputies approved in the Verkhovna Rada late on tuesday. The name of the new ministry: "The Ministry of Information Policy."

The government is now deciding the story that get's told. Journalists opposed to this notion are being arrested.

Reporters Without Borders is already stating it's firmly opposed to the creation of the ministry, stating "Putting the government in charge of 'information policy' would be major retrograde step that would open the way to grave excesses."

http://www.mdintlholdings.com/content/orwellian-ministry-truth-osce-lashes-out-kiev%E2%80%99s-new-ministry-amid-journalists%E2%80%99-outcry
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LordSlowpoke

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Re: Ukrainian Crisis Discussion Thread №3: Love your Country
« Reply #847 on: December 07, 2014, 07:52:09 am »

sounds like a just and democratic institution right guys
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smjjames

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Re: Ukrainian Crisis Discussion Thread №3: Love your Country
« Reply #848 on: December 07, 2014, 08:01:12 am »

Controlling information during war is one thing, but outright saying what does and does not get reported or even what journalists say is another.

I agree that it's a step backwards.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 08:29:28 am by smjjames »
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Ukrainian Crisis Discussion Thread №3: Love your Country
« Reply #849 on: December 07, 2014, 08:24:07 am »

OSCE dislikes it? Than it must be good

War censorship is necessary.
Answering Russian propaganda is necessary.

Of cause everything should be balanced, excessive control over media is awful practice, but current state of affairs when we have zero control is absurd

Was new ministry necessary? I think existing institutions could handle regulations just fine. Ukraine needs less ministers not more
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

smjjames

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Re: Ukrainian Crisis Discussion Thread №3: Love your Country
« Reply #850 on: December 07, 2014, 08:33:30 am »

OSCE dislikes it? Than it must be good

War censorship is necessary.
Answering Russian propaganda is necessary.

Of cause everything should be balanced, excessive control over media is awful practice, but current state of affairs when we have zero control is absurd

Was new ministry necessary? I think existing institutions could handle regulations just fine. Ukraine needs less ministers not more

I agree that war censorship and anti-propoganda is neccesary given Ukraines position, but wanting to completely control what journalists report and say, no.

Lets just see how it plays out, maybe it won't be as Orwellian as people think, or maybe it will.
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miljan

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Re: Ukrainian Crisis Discussion Thread №3: Love your Country
« Reply #851 on: December 07, 2014, 08:35:50 am »

OSCE dislikes it? Than it must be good

Than I guess russia support of rebels is also good :P.

But, yea in war times, its common to have bigger control of medias unfortunately. To remove propaganda and truth that is negative/harmful  also.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Ukrainian Crisis Discussion Thread №3: Love your Country
« Reply #852 on: December 07, 2014, 08:45:04 am »

To illustrate, currently in Ukraine journalists find it absolutely OK to go and say something like "Unit A stationed in city B has no enough anti-tank weapons. Boo the government"

I see a problem here
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Sergarr

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Re: Ukrainian Crisis Discussion Thread №3: Love your Country
« Reply #853 on: December 07, 2014, 09:03:54 am »

I'm pretty sure without journalists the encirclement of Ilovaisk would have wiped out all the encircled troops, since the Ukr-Army-Command has only started to pay attention to it after five days of constant media pressure.
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miljan

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Re: Ukrainian Crisis Discussion Thread №3: Love your Country
« Reply #854 on: December 07, 2014, 09:07:19 am »

To illustrate, currently in Ukraine journalists find it absolutely OK to go and say something like "Unit A stationed in city B has no enough anti-tank weapons. Boo the government"

I see a problem here

I see problem with ukraine military, complaining about its government and giving info to the press. That is the main problem with you example, not the press. So commanding officers should take care of that.
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