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Author Topic: EOTFS: Emperor Wars (5/5) - Church vs. Capitalism the odds are 431:431  (Read 21674 times)

a1s

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Re: EOTFS: Emperor Wars (4/5) - Need Replacement, Sanity not required
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2014, 08:22:52 am »

I don't care about the difficulty level, but passwords seem like a good idea. Might be a good idea for someone, possibly a non-player, to have a master list of passwords, in case we need a substitute player.
There was some expansion of the idea of having a GM in a previous thread: EofS Blitz. You may wish to consider it.
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RedKing

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Re: EOTFS: Emperor Wars (4/5) - Need Replacement, Sanity not required
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2014, 10:20:39 am »

Meh, Google Drive and Dropbox were turning out to be too much of a pain in the ass.

Turn 1 is done for Li Halan.

karlito, send me your email info in PM and I'll send you the file.
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Karlito

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Re: EOTFS: Emperor Wars (4/5) - Need Replacement, Sanity not required
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2014, 12:53:56 pm »

Done.

If Ghazkull can go ahead and pm me his, then I can just pass the file right along when I get it.
Actually, I have it already.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 03:00:15 pm by Karlito »
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RedKing

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Re: EOTFS: Emperor Wars (4/5) - Need Replacement, Sanity not required
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2014, 04:02:28 pm »

Ok, I'll send the file when I get home.

Before we get deep into the game, I think we need to clarify the rule about "embassy/consulates/missions" (those 1 holding presences on worlds you don't own).

I like the idea of treating them as diplomatic presences, and the rule about needing to have a noble housed there to initiate diplomatic contact. But, we need to consider a couple of things:

1. Not all houses start with diplomatic missions with all other houses. For instance, Li Halan has no presence on a Hawkwood-held world (though I believe Hawkwood has a mission on one or two Li Halan worlds). Li Halan also has no presence on a League world. On the other hand, Li Halan has three missions on Decados worlds.

2. The missions are pretty lightly defended and rebels don't distinguish between targets.

3. Since the missions are farms, they can't build anything but serfs (non-combat).

4. All houses (plus the Church, the League, the Fleet and the Eye) have castle missions on Vril-Ya (the Vau mainworld). Likewise they all have missions (well, more like fortified palace estates plus outlying farms to feed them) on Byzantium Secundus.

5. Occasionally, there are worlds which are not "owned" and have missions on them.

So, I'd like to submit the following suggestions for rules:

1. Diplomatic contact can only be made by a House with a staffed diplomatic mission (see below) on a world controlled by the target. So in the example above, Li Halan can not initiate contact with House Hawkwood, but Hawkwood can initiate contact with Li Halan (I'm pretty damn sure I've seen a blue farm on one of my planets).

2. New diplomatic missions can be built, but only with the explicit permission of the target House. The target House has the right to designate the specific hex where the mission will be built. (The mission must be a Farm and must be within 3 hexes of a city owned by the House governing the planet -- no putting a mission out in the wilderness). It will be the building House's responsibility to acquire and transport an Engineer to the planet. At no time can the House that the mission belongs to overfill the mission with units for the express aim of starting a plague. (The requirement that it be a Farm helps cut down on the chances of that). There is also a limit of ONE mission per planet.

Missions can be built on NPC worlds (Church, League, Vau) with the following restrictions:
a. No new missions on Holy Terra (can't imagine the Church allowing that). Any other Church-controlled world is okay (Artemis, De Molay, etc.)
b. No new missions on Leagueheim. Other League-controlled worlds are okay.
c. A new mission may be constructed on Vril-Ya in the same hex as the original mission, if something happens to destroy it. No other locations on Vril-Ya are allowed, nor are mission on other Vau planets, unless Vril-Ya somehow leaves the Vau sphere of control.
d. The missions can be in any hex, as long as they fulfill the requirement above of being within 3 hexes of a city owned by the planet owner.

3. The House owning a mission is required to staff a Noble onsite as Ambassador, otherwise they must withdraw all units from the mission. If the Noble is killed, the House must provide a replacement within three years or withdraw all units until such time as a Noble is provided.

4. The House owning the mission may reinforce or reduce its garrison as it sees fit (as long as there is sufficient food), with the understanding that increasing the garrison without explanation or advisement to the hosting House may cause diplomatic tension and be seen as a provocative act.

5. A House may voluntarily recall its Ambassador at any time, for any reason, though this can be seen as an insult to the House whose planet the Ambassador is withdrawn from, unless there is reasonable cause (plague, Symbiots, massive rebel uprisings, a lack of noble units needed elsewhere, redundancy in missions with that House). Upon removing the Noble unit from the mission, all remaining garrison/staff must be removed within three years. The mission city itself is NOT removed, but the food generated cannot be moved if there is no staff.

6. A House may also expel another House's Ambassador at any time, for any reason, though likewise this is seen as a serious insult. Once formally expelled, the owning House has three turns to remove the Ambassador and all mission staff/garrison. Failure to do so will be seen as a breach of Imperial protocol.

7. During open warfare, missions are not exempt from attack. But by tradition, they are typically left unharmed as long as the garrison is kept to a minimum for defensive purposes (i.e. anti-tank guns, artillery batteries, flak guns, and basic infantry). If a House desires, they can attack and capture the mission, but this will sever diplomatic contact with that House, which will make ceasefire offers difficult, if not impossible. It is for this reason that missions are typically NOT attacked, or at least not captured.

8. Food grown by the mission can be transferred by cargo vessel off the planet, but cannot be sold at the Agora on the planet. It also cannot be used as a "blocking" unit to force another House to declare war to gain access to an area. In addition, a minimum of one year's planetary food consumption must be left on the planet to avoid any chance of plague.

9. Missions on planets with no recognized owner (i.e. The Palace is not occupied by a Great House, the Holy Church, the League, the Vau or an Imperial Agency -- or there is no Palace -- so the world name appears in grey) are not subject to the above restrictions.


Thoughts/comments? I like the potential for hijinks that these mission holdings add, but want to make sure we're all on the same page so they don't get abused.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 04:18:41 pm by RedKing »
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Margrave

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Re: EOTFS: Emperor Wars (4/5) - Need Replacement, Sanity not required
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2014, 04:19:29 pm »

Sounds good, it gives an in-universe and out-universe reason for everybody to have these in the first place.

The only concern I have is we already have several pages worth of House Rules, Mod Rules, Game Rules, Bug Rules and Rules Rules to keep track of so we should try to be forgiving of breaches simply because of the enormous likelihood of forgetting something.
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RedKing

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Re: EOTFS: Emperor Wars (4/5) - Need Replacement, Sanity not required
« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2014, 04:30:48 pm »

Yeah, I agree, this is just a general framework. For the most part, it's "Don't be a dick and abuse these." Having the rules set out is less about punishing people for unintentionally violating them and more about settling rules questions while they're still hypothetical. Much easier than arguing this when someone's strategy is depending on the outcome.

I think missions will be a great double-edged sword. On the one hand, you need your opponents to have them so they can come begging for help or come offering their firstborn for you to stop bombing them. On the other hand, it gives them an eye into your troop and supply movements and a route to introduce spies (just like REAL embassies). It also means placing your precious nobles somewhat in harm's way.

Though that leads to another great balance -- keeping your planet safe, otherwise other players have legitimate cover to say "Damn, look at all those rebels! I better drop off ten more battalions of Brothers Battle, which are purely to keep my ambassador safe and totally not for launching a coup."  :P

And then there's the assassination hijinks...you could cripple an alliance by severing diplomatic channels through assassinating their ambassadors!
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
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Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

Ghazkull

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Re: EOTFS: Emperor Wars (4/5) - Need Replacement, Sanity not required
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2014, 04:44:45 pm »

yup pretty much i like it. Although i think we should have some gentlemens agreement to evacuate all superfluous holdings on other peoples planets, that is if i have three holdings in Li Halan space, i evacuate 2 of them.
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RedKing

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Re: EOTFS: Emperor Wars (4/5) - Need Replacement, Sanity not required
« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2014, 05:01:18 pm »

yup pretty much i like it. Although i think we should have some gentlemens agreement to evacuate all superfluous holdings on other peoples planets, that is if i have three holdings in Li Halan space, i evacuate 2 of them.
That's why I included "redundancy in missions with that House" as a reasonable cause for recalling an ambassador. I don't particularly need three embassies with Decados either.
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E. Albright

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Re: EOTFS: Emperor Wars (4/5) - Need Replacement, Sanity not required
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2014, 06:50:23 pm »

...might wanna change the thread title again...
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Karlito

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Re: EOTFS: Emperor Wars (4/5) - Need Replacement, Sanity not required
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2014, 07:27:44 pm »

Man, not being able to diplomacy with half my fellow Great Houses at the start is going to be a little annoying. Can't my dude on Byzantium Secundus just get together with theirs in a smokey backroom somewhere? :P

9. Missions on planets with no recognized owner (i.e. The Palace is not occupied by a Great House, the Holy Church, the League, the Vau or an Imperial Agency -- or there is no Palace -- so the world name appears in grey) are not subject to the above restrictions.

Just note that with the exception of the symbiot planets in the upper left, I think all the planets in the galaxy are held by some power or another, even the ones that have gray names, though I haven't finished exploring Grail in singleplayer. Thethys though, is held by Imperial Guard and Fleet forces.
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RedKing

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Re: EOTFS: Emperor Wars (4/5) - Need Replacement, Sanity not required
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2014, 08:49:15 pm »

Hmm...okay, I thought Tethys was uncontrolled. Well then, I guess that one doesn't apply.

Turn has been sent to karlito.


Also, it occurred to me that we need to clarify "diplomacy" otherwise we have a Catch-22 in that you need permission to build an embassy, but you can't have diplomatic contact without an embassy.

So I think "diplomatic contact" in the context of the missions is "any transaction that you can do through the diplomacy interface" (i.e. transferring credits, technology, map trades, promises to secure votes, declarations of war, etc.)

Everything else (getting permission to build an embassy, negotiating, etc.) can be considered back-channel diplomacy occurring on Byzantium Secundus or Vril-Ya or even through intermediaries like traders, lesser houses, Guild contacts, etc.

The diplomacy interface in-game can be thought of as the formal treaty system. You can discuss "Hey, what would you take for Physiks tech?" via Mail (or PMs or email or whatever) and be considered backchannel, but to actually carry through on that agreement, you'd need a binding treaty which would require formal diplomatic relations. Make sense?

And I think the starting position is set such that every House has a diplomatic gap with at least one other House, though I haven't verified that.
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Karlito

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Re: EOTFS: Emperor Wars (4/5) - Need Replacement, Sanity not required
« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2014, 09:39:37 pm »

So I think "diplomatic contact" in the context of the missions is "any transaction that you can do through the diplomacy interface" (i.e. transferring credits, technology, map trades, promises to secure votes, declarations of war, etc.)

Everything else (getting permission to build an embassy, negotiating, etc.) can be considered back-channel diplomacy occurring on Byzantium Secundus or Vril-Ya or even through intermediaries like traders, lesser houses, Guild contacts, etc.
Yeah, I like that rule. Assassinate other player's ambassadors to disrupt their dealings!

File has been sent onward, assuming Ghazkull is using the same email as two years ago when we tried to play EotFS. Since we're playing with passwords, and we don't have a neutral third party to hold onto them, I've also sent him mine. The player immediately after you probably has the least opportunity to ever make use of it, after all.
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Margrave

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Re: EOTFS: Emperor Wars (4/5) - Need Replacement, Sanity not required
« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2014, 10:33:59 pm »


The diplomacy interface in-game can be thought of as the formal treaty system. You can discuss "Hey, what would you take for Physiks tech?" via Mail (or PMs or email or whatever) and be considered backchannel, but to actually carry through on that agreement, you'd need a binding treaty which would require formal diplomatic relations. Make sense?

Sounds good.

Forgive me everyone if this answer is obvious but I've been playing singleplayer and for the life of me can't figure out a way to build an Engineer in a factory. Is there a tech I'm supposed to research first? Jungle worlds are a living hell without someone capable of building roads.
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Karlito

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Re: EOTFS: Emperor Wars (4/5) - Need Replacement, Sanity not required
« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2014, 10:35:15 pm »

Economics. Economics. Economics.

Maybe there's other tech that lets you build native engineers, instead of hiring the mercenary guild ones, but you want economics and you want it early.
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Ghazkull

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Re: EOTFS: Emperor Wars (4/5) - Need Replacement, Sanity not required
« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2014, 11:16:02 am »

will do my turn monday had some hard days.
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