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Author Topic: Tabletop Games Thread  (Read 192770 times)

Cruxador

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1770 on: August 30, 2016, 12:33:32 am »

I think any discussion about the state of a D&D world economy is swiftly going to descend down a rabbit-hole of madness and illogical conclusions. A book standard CR 1/3 goblin carries 54 gp in equipment alone (short sword, short bow, 20 arrows, leather armor, light wooden shield), about a year and a half of wealth for a standard untrained laborer. Why anyone works at a trade instead of just hunting for a lone goblin once a year is beyond me.
Because goblins are only pushovers if you're a badass adventurer.

Not to say the economy isn't dogshit.
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scriver

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1771 on: August 30, 2016, 05:55:43 am »

That's also the purchase cost of new equipment of those types, not what you'd get for selling them.

But yes the reason most peasants or tradesmen don't go fighting goblins has more to do with how they only have 1d4 or d6 health.
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Tack

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1772 on: August 30, 2016, 06:21:36 am »

Yeah peasants are also CR 1/3.
An all-peasant hunting party could potentially make war upon some goblins and sell the keeps to be rich for a little while- but then you have to start thinking about logistics for the aforementioned army.
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94dima94

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1773 on: August 31, 2016, 07:27:56 am »

Also, goblins are not the kind of creatures who would say "Those humans came here to kill us and steal our gold... well, what can you do about it? Let's forget about it".

Actually this gave me an idea for a low-level quest: a group of goblins are planning revenge over a group of farmers who thought about this and killed a few goblins. Protect the village and kill the goblin raid coming towards them.
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Criptfeind

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1774 on: August 31, 2016, 08:09:25 am »

Why would you murder yourself and risk someone not bringing you back when you can just have a 9th level wizard Teleport you wherever you need to go? Book price for a Teleport spell is 450gp which is close enough to the cost of the weird death-travel thingy listed that it's simply not worth the hassle, and gets you there instantly, no wait involved.

Seriously, by any logical measure all trade in high cost goods is going to be conducted via teleportation magic. Size and quantity also isn't an issue with Bags of Holding and Portable Holes being things that are fairly common. Same day delivery over 900 miles, or further for multiple castings.

Well, you're paying hundreds of gold in exchange for time in this case, and to move a reasonable amount of goods now you're stacking up thousands of gold in storage devices. Combine that with ninth level wizards being extremely rare and now we know why no one uses teleport ether!

Also for the economy thing the one silver piece that so many people talk about is simply the lowest level of total no skill work. Like you'd expect someone who's just moved into a city from a farm or something to do. Once you start applying the profession rules to npcs you'll find that a family can make a really quite reasonable amount of money relatively quickly. Like, that goblin carrying around 25 gold in equipment sounds like a lot but it really only represents a few months of work for a peasant family, and hunting down a goblin is a lot more dangerous then plowing the field for a bit.

A lot more exciting of course, which is why we have adventurers! Which even a small village should be able to make enough excess to pump out a fully equipped level 1 party fairly regularly.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 08:11:21 am by Criptfeind »
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miauw62

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1775 on: August 31, 2016, 10:29:22 am »

so how about them ridiculously expensive pieces of cardboard.

Kaladesh seems really really really hype. We've got dwarves, implications of matter being teleported through space using the Blind Eternities (e.g. interplanar portals), another artifact block...

I'm also really looking forward to what Mechanic E will turn out to be. Apparently it's something they've been trying to find a place for since Mirrodin.

In addition to that, they just announced the next block, which appears to be some sort of Egyptian-themed plane ruled by motherfucking Nicol Bolas.
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Cruxador

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1776 on: September 03, 2016, 10:08:38 pm »

But yes the reason most peasants or tradesmen don't go fighting goblins has more to do with how they only have 1d4 or d6 health.
Well, I was thinking in terms of logic rather than game mechanics, since the former is the less mutable of the two. There's a good pleb vs goblin battle in Hai to Gensou no Grimgar where a party of five starting adventurers show peasant-tier skills in a fight against a goblin, which I think is a good idea of how it should go down generally. Really, that whole show is applicable to this situation.

Also, goblins are not the kind of creatures who would say "Those humans came here to kill us and steal our gold... well, what can you do about it? Let's forget about it".

Actually this gave me an idea for a low-level quest: a group of goblins are planning revenge over a group of farmers who thought about this and killed a few goblins. Protect the village and kill the goblin raid coming towards them.
That's assuming your players want to side with the villagers, who arguably brought this on themselves. High-minded players might prefer to favor the goblins who, while probably not innocent are at least the victims here.
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Jimmy

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1777 on: September 04, 2016, 12:01:25 am »

Goblins are, as a race, given to violence and thievery. Their entire culture is centred on stealing from anyone they can't murder. The gods of justice and righteousness, who are a real force within the fantasy world setting, reward their most devout followers with the power to smite them dead. It gets into the whole 'black and white' morality system of the RPG genre, which isn't really a topic for discussion in this thread, but it's assumed a gang of peasants killing goblins is akin to them banding together to wipe out a dangerous wolf pack that lives nearby. It might not be a threat now, but all it takes is one person's child caught in the wrong place at the wrong time to turn into a tragedy.

Even a peasant can, by the rules, gain one free simple weapon proficiency, and with their wealth typically tied up in their property, I'd estimate most would pick a weapon such as a club, quarterstaff or sling which has no base cost involved. With three to five peasants in a party slinging stones at a goblin, you'd likely find them capable of killing it before any of them suffered a fatality. Of course they probably leave that to the town guard instead, but for small hamlets without a strong defending force, a peasant mob would probably be capable of handling defence of their homes against a goblin band.
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scriver

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1778 on: September 04, 2016, 06:49:01 am »

Adventure title: Seven Adventurers
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Arx

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1779 on: September 04, 2016, 06:52:54 am »

so how about them ridiculously expensive pieces of cardboard.

Kaladesh seems really really really hype. We've got dwarves, implications of matter being teleported through space using the Blind Eternities (e.g. interplanar portals), another artifact block...

I'm also really looking forward to what Mechanic E will turn out to be. Apparently it's something they've been trying to find a place for since Mirrodin.

In addition to that, they just announced the next block, which appears to be some sort of Egyptian-themed plane ruled by motherfucking Nicol Bolas.

Energy looks interesting. Fabricate seems like a pretty decent mechanic as well, although I don't know enough of Magic to say much.
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Criptfeind

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1780 on: September 04, 2016, 07:02:44 am »

It's your people systematic oppression of goblin kind that's lead us to this horrible self perpetuating system of hate and squalor in the first place. Clearly the reason goblins act like rabid animals is because society treats them like such!  Stop goblinion oppression now!
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1781 on: September 04, 2016, 09:00:37 am »

I think any discussion about the state of a D&D world economy is swiftly going to descend down a rabbit-hole of madness and illogical conclusions. A book standard CR 1/3 goblin carries 54 gp in equipment alone (short sword, short bow, 20 arrows, leather armor, light wooden shield), about a year and a half of wealth for a standard untrained laborer. Why anyone works at a trade instead of just hunting for a lone goblin once a year is beyond me.

Even a peasant can, by the rules, gain one free simple weapon proficiency, and with their wealth typically tied up in their property, I'd estimate most would pick a weapon such as a club, quarterstaff or sling which has no base cost involved. With three to five peasants in a party slinging stones at a goblin, you'd likely find them capable of killing it before any of them suffered a fatality. Of course they probably leave that to the town guard instead, but for small hamlets without a strong defending force, a peasant mob would probably be capable of handling defence of their homes against a goblin band.

Goblins tend to go in groups - SRD says their smallest groups are 4-9 gobbos in a gang, and with their underdog nature, I doubt many goblins travel alone in human lands.

Suddenly, that group of peasants is in a lot more danger.

The goblins have more HP and AC, and their superior weapons compensate for their small size.
They're also got points in hide and move silently, as well as the alertness feat by standard, meaning they're better at ambushing the peasant party than the peasants are at ambushing them.

With a sling, presumably the peasant buys some lead bullets, or else they're only doing 1d3 damage with a -1 to hit, so at the least they'd be spending 1sp.
Using a club or quarterstaff brings their damage up to par with the goblin, but then they have to fight in melee something that is tougher, harder to injure, and probably more skilled, as well.

Once the battle is over, how many of the peasants have died? Was it worthwhile, compared to a less interesting but much safer career of farming? Can they get back to safety without encountering anything else, which might be inclined to hostilities?

They can now go into town and sell the goblin gear. To who?

Who wants old goblin gear? It's probably not well looked after, the majority of adventurers and warriors are Medium, so they don't want it. How many halflings are in town to buy crappy second-hand leathers and weaponry?
Is the armourer or weaponsmith going to buy it? Well, he could, but he doesn't have a huge amount of prospective customers for it, so perhaps he offers less than half value for it (as the standard selling is half value). Do the peasants accept? After all, they risked their lives, but no one is going to buy it out on their farm, and they have no use for it themselves, unless they're going to raise some child soldiers. Less and less profit.

Of course, goblins aren't the only danger out in the wilderness. There's all sorts of dangerous and deadly creatures lurking out past the beaten path. Better hope you don't encounter something more deadly than a few gobbos, since your club might not do much to a troll.


----

If nothing else, most people don't want to engage in life-or-death battles. They're not going to go out looking for trouble with superior enemies, when they could bunch together some copper coins and a cheesewheel or two and hire a couple of burly men professional in violence to go kill them instead.
Defending their homes, I imagine the peasants have the advantage of cover and their backs being against the wall to spur them on - but if the goblins are actively attacking a hamlet, they probably have the advantage of numbers. Goblins are cowardly sorts, after all, and like to hold the advantage. If there's only a few, they're more likely to attack people on their own or steal animals or crops.

I guess it depends what the goblins are there for. If they want just to steal anything valuable like food, they're not going to attack hamlets, because there's more danger in it - rather than running, the peasants will be forced to fight, and so the risk to the goblins is much higher. They're cowards - they don't like lots of danger. They'll rustle cattle and steal crops. Perhaps there'll be a fight occasionally, and some goblins and peasants will die, but it'll rarely escalate, because neither peasants or goblins want to have a big battle. If the goblins do too much, then the peasants will organise a mob or hire warriors - or both - and the goblins will have to fight at a disadvantage or run.

If they want the land, then they'll be there in much greater numbers, beyond the capacity of a hamlet of peasants to reasonably deal with. The peasants will take what they can and leave, appealing to their lord for help, and trying to hire some warriors or adventurers to deal with the goblins if the lord isn't interested.

At least, that's how I think of it, on both fluff and crunch terms.
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miauw62

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1782 on: September 04, 2016, 09:24:18 am »

so how about them ridiculously expensive pieces of cardboard.

Kaladesh seems really really really hype. We've got dwarves, implications of matter being teleported through space using the Blind Eternities (e.g. interplanar portals), another artifact block...

I'm also really looking forward to what Mechanic E will turn out to be. Apparently it's something they've been trying to find a place for since Mirrodin.

In addition to that, they just announced the next block, which appears to be some sort of Egyptian-themed plane ruled by motherfucking Nicol Bolas.

Energy looks interesting. Fabricate seems like a pretty decent mechanic as well, although I don't know enough of Magic to say much.
Energy really depends on what they print with it. It really seems like a build-around mechanic. However, since KLD only has three mechanics, it's probably pretty pushed.

Fabricate is probably the least exciting, but neat. It's a typical +1/+1/token mechanic. Probably mostly ment for Limited, and probably the mechanic they'll swap out for something else in Aether Revolt.

Vehicles are really weird and im excited to see how they'll play.
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Quote from: NW_Kohaku
they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the raving confessions of a mass murdering cannibal from a recipe to bake a pie.
Knowing Belgium, everyone will vote for themselves out of mistrust for anyone else, and some kind of weird direct democracy coalition will need to be formed from 11 million or so individuals.

Sergius

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1783 on: September 04, 2016, 06:21:56 pm »

Another session of Fate of the Ur-Quan today. The heroes arrived at Spathiwa, where they contacted the Spathi High Council (a.k.a. the "Safe Ones"), who after being given the "Secret Spathi Cypher" asked them where they got it. Captain Fwiffo immediately proceeded to lock himself in the restroom of his Eluder, while the crew was trying to get him out. (for some reason the restroom in the Spathi ship had a large steel vault door with multi-factor security and all ventilation shafts leading to it trapped by deadly devices).

The Safe Ones gave the PCs a quest to rid their planet of the Evil Ones, savage creatures that had eaten a large amount of their population a few centuries ago and forced them to relocate to the moon. The players set up some traps in the planet, aided by a sample of Fwiffo's DNA of deliciousness. They lured one of the beasts into it (which turned to be some sort of giant teddy bear that moved with the grace and fierceness of a sloth). As they were analyzing the beast, a group of four drone robots attacked, killing Ensign Rico. The drones played a pre-recorded message, that the intruders where to cease and desist trying to ruin their amazing prank, death being the preferred way to cease and desist.

The Ninja player used his ninja skills to climb a tree and then jump onto one of the drones, attacking it with his sword, while the other player, aided by one redshirt + his decoy (technology adapted from the captured Spathi ship - the Spathi fill half their crew pods with decoys to lure the fire away from the real crew) took potshots at the other pair of drones. The lander itself also shot at the robots but was mostly ineffective (redshirts suck at shooting. And other skills. And not dying). I use the same rules from the computer game, btw: ships, landers etc get destroyed or at least seriously damaged and disabled if they run out of crew, otherwise they're undamaged. All damage goes directly to the people inside.

After destroying one of the drones with massive damage, I ruled that he could steer the crashing drone into the other one of that pair, by overcoming a Vehicles check. And exactly that happened, to which even more Fate points were piled on which caused the destruction of both drones.

Eventually they destroyed the rest, and salvaged the pieces to try and figure out where they came from (inside the planet) and who programmed them.

In the end this played out rather well, I think I managed to make the scene a lot more fun than just capturing some helpless creatures, while still making the point that the Spahi are defenseless cowards and easy prey for the lamest of predators.

The players were throwing out all kinds of solutions at the end, from using superscience to make the Spathi less delicious to these creatures, to make a virus to make them more harmless, or making a zoo or whatever. We'll see how that plays out next game.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 06:23:51 pm by Sergius »
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Yoink

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #1784 on: September 04, 2016, 06:34:32 pm »

Adventure title: Seven Adventurers
Hahaha, nice.
And I thought those samurai were unruly... that would be sheer chaos. :))
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