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Author Topic: Tabletop Games Thread  (Read 197611 times)

Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #660 on: March 19, 2015, 09:03:19 am »

Guys, what's the most popular tabletop war-game set in any from 1600-1890? Preferably around the napoleonic time period, but generally any era with heavy use of line formations and muskets. Anyone have experience with and/or play any??? Are they very popular at all?

A friend I've lost contact used to be int this on a large scale. I'll see if my brother remembers what he played.

Thanks Arx. Anyone else know of some good miniature wargaming set in this era???
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Sergius

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #661 on: March 19, 2015, 12:05:49 pm »

Throwing my hat in the ring as pro-alignment system for 3.5e (la la la 4e I can't hear you!)

You need to respect that it's an integral part of the core mechanics of the fantasy setting. Alignment forms one of the basic building blocks for the universe. Every creature in the game has an alignment, and it's an intrinsic part of their character.

Some creatures are simply always a certain alignment, such as extraplanar monsters. Devils are always lawful evil. Demons are always chaotic evil. Angels are always good.

This is a content issue, not a mechanics issue. "All angels are always good" is a characteristic of the setting. "All angels always want to further the power of heaven no matter what" can be a characteristic of another setting. Both settings can be played in D&D, even using alignment rules (just give the grimdark setting Angels a different one). You're arguing that the default list of creatures in vanilla D&D (Greyhawk? Forgotten Realms? Ravenloft? Spelljammer? Eberron? Iron Kingdoms?) is neatly categorized in Always Evil/Good/Neutral. Yet, creatures are removed from that list and new ones added all the time. There's an actual description on HOW each creature is Evil, you know. It's not like they give you "Alignment!" and you go "well, these guys are Evil so they must keep slaves and beat them, and kill old ladies for the lulz."

You forget that "good" is always a word even if "Good(tm)" is not an Alignment. "All angels are good" can work without a Mechanic, just by saying it, let me show you: "Angel: note: these guys are really good!". D&D will tell you to guess what it means anyway even if you write it down in a box that says Alignment.

Quote
If you have too much of a hard time accepting that alignment in a D&D world is an objective, measurable thing instead of a subjective, indefinable quality, remember that some things in these worlds just simply work different to real life. This is a world of levels, hit points, skill points and attack bonuses. These things don't necessarily have a discrete representation in the game, but they exist and are just as valid as alignment. For better or worse, this fantasy world has a line in the sand where morality exists in nine defined flavors, and your character as well as everyone else will be in one of those nine boxes.

But there's the problem: Good and Evil in D&D is not an objective measurable thing. As in, the behaviors that define them are NOT objective at all (they are Measurable, only because you glow Evil or you glow Good the more evil or good things you do). The game still tells you "well... Good aligned creatures do good deeds... and stuff. Use your common sense, duh!". Or to ask your DM (who then proceeds to tell you that Attacks of Opportunity are always evil because he's a big turd blossom). There's not a cut-and-dried list, a menu a-la-carte where you can verify if any single thing you want to do falls in Good or Evil aligned. There are guidelines, sure: don't steal from people that need it more than you! but it's okay to steal from people that have too much don't like to share (OR IS IT?!)".

The whole point of "what happens if you remove alignment" was to show that it's this: nothing special. Two spells stop working (maybe more), and monsters aren't cookie-cutter anymore. That's it. This is not an argument that "alignment systems are bad and shouldn't exist anywhere ever!" It's simply showing that in D&D specifically, alignments hardly even do anything except so that someone can yell at you "alignment shift!" or as a crutch to avoid writing down on your character "my character is always helpful with children but hates abusive authority, yet will respect a benevolent ruler"

Alignment shifts are also meaningless, they do the following:
1) You decide beforehand which is your alignment so that you know what things you're allowed to do.
2) You do things that aren't part of that alignment.
3) You get told which alignment really corresponds to the things you do and to change it.

So, now your alignment is a different one than the one you thought was your alignment when you first wrote it down...

Then later.

4) Your character decides to do different kinds of things.
5) You get told that your alignment is now different.
6) You get to do the new things that you decided to start doing from now on, because of the new alignment (which you could do anyway! except... that they changed your alignment).

So in the end, the Alignment is a label that tells others, what kind of things you do, but don't prevent you from doing different things, doing them enough just changes your Alignment?

But Alignment matters because of magic. And spells that say "if alignment = +1 then...". Which is a really tiny subset of spells anyway. And that normally don't work on creatures that don't radiate their alignment (Clerics, Paladins, and outsiders/undead). May as well make the spells based on Heaven/Hell allegiance instead of actual Goodness/Badness.

In fact, Clerics don't even radiate their own alignment, they radiate the alignment from the deity that gives them spells (which can be one step apart). And Paladins only ever radiate Good (Heavenly!), because if they become Evil and fall, they don't suddenly radiate Evil -their Heavenly Radiation simply stops, and they have to actively seek a new career (that radiates Helly!).
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 12:09:50 pm by Sergius »
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #662 on: March 19, 2015, 12:15:10 pm »

What about paladins of tyranny or slaughter?
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Sergius

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #663 on: March 19, 2015, 12:21:23 pm »

What about paladins of tyranny or slaughter?

I don't know, I assume it's a different class? So, it radiates different stuff. Evil, I suppose? I would have him actually radiate Tyranny. Maybe a "detect aura" should be more specific and tell you all kinds of radiations! 8)

If I invent a "Paladin of Magic" class, what is his alignment? What does it radiate? Or how about a "Paladin of GP" :D
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #664 on: March 19, 2015, 01:10:08 pm »

Actually, they're variants of the Paladin. Around halfway down the page.

The paladin of slaughter is chaotic evil and reads as Chaotic Stupid...
Quote from: Paladin of slaughter code of conduct
A paladin of slaughter must be of chaotic evil alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits a good act. Additionally, a paladin of slaughter's code requires that she disrespect all authority figures who have not proven their physical superiority to her, refuse help to those in need, and sow destruction and death at all opportunities.

But the paladin of Tyranny is somewhat more reasonable.
Quote
A paladin of tyranny must be of lawful evil alignment and loses all class abilities if he ever willingly commits a good act. Additionally, a paladin of tyranny's code requires that he respect authority figures as long as they have the strength to rule over the weak, act with discipline (not engaging in random slaughter, keeping firm control over those beneath his station, and so forth), help only those who help him maintain or improve his status, and punish those who challenge authority (unless, of course, such challengers prove more worthy to hold that authority).

Anyway, they have auras of evil.

I would think paladins losing their aura when they fall is because they are no long walking bastions of whatever force they channel. Same as they lose spells.
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XXXXYYYY

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #665 on: March 19, 2015, 01:41:25 pm »

What about paladins of tyranny or slaughter?

I don't know, I assume it's a different class? So, it radiates different stuff. Evil, I suppose? I would have him actually radiate Tyranny. Maybe a "detect aura" should be more specific and tell you all kinds of radiations! 8)

If I invent a "Paladin of Magic" class, what is his alignment? What does it radiate? Or how about a "Paladin of GP" :D
Obviously, a Paladin of GP has an aura that continually summons coins, launches them in all directions, and has them disappear after hitting something. Possibly treat it like a permanent Darkness spell of the proper CL, always centered on the Paladin. Possibly add a constant nonlethal damage to anyone in the area not wearing enough armor/clothes.

Huh. That could actually be pretty cool, if a bit silly.
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Gentlefish

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #666 on: March 19, 2015, 01:55:15 pm »

There's also Paladin of Freedom, which is a liiiiitle more reasonable than the other Paladin types, since it rests on Chaotic Good.

Mephisto

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #667 on: March 19, 2015, 01:55:32 pm »

If I invent a "Paladin of Magic" class, what is his alignment? What does it radiate? Or how about a "Paladin of GP" :D

I know this was kind of in jest, but aren't most of D&D's gods of magic true neutral?

Someone I found with a short Google search mentioned a third-party neutral Paladin-like that casts arcane rather than divine spells.
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Bohandas

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #668 on: March 19, 2015, 02:35:53 pm »

What about paladins of tyranny or slaughter?

I don't know, I assume it's a different class? So, it radiates different stuff. Evil, I suppose? I would have him actually radiate Tyranny. Maybe a "detect aura" should be more specific and tell you all kinds of radiations! 8)

If I invent a "Paladin of Magic" class, what is his alignment? What does it radiate? Or how about a "Paladin of GP" :D
Obviously, a Paladin of GP has an aura that continually summons coins, launches them in all directions, and has them disappear after hitting something. Possibly treat it like a permanent Darkness spell of the proper CL, always centered on the Paladin. Possibly add a constant nonlethal damage to anyone in the area not wearing enough armor/clothes.

Huh. That could actually be pretty cool, if a bit silly.

The paladin of gold pieces radiates law and evil and has a red white and blue elephant for a mount
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #669 on: March 19, 2015, 02:38:47 pm »

If I invent a "Paladin of Magic" class, what is his alignment? What does it radiate? Or how about a "Paladin of GP" :D

Paladin of magic is pretty simple. An aura of magic, as per detect magic.

EDIT: damn phone messed up quotes
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 03:22:30 pm by GiglameshDespair »
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Flying Dice

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #670 on: March 19, 2015, 02:52:42 pm »

Hey, I figured this'd be a good place to ask. Sometime fairly recently Myth-Weavers updated their D&D 3.5 legacy sheets to have an abnormally large top border (the thing with the save button &c.), such that it blocks off everything above the Level/Size/Age/&c. row. It's only visible when you have permissions to edit the sheet (i.e. your own, not other players').

Any idea how to fix it, short of migrating everything back to the old sheet format by hand?
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Sergius

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #671 on: March 19, 2015, 02:59:28 pm »

If I invent a "Paladin of Magic" class, what is his alignment? What does it radiate? Or how about a "Paladin of GP" :D

Paladin of magic is pretty simple. An aura of magic, as per detect magic.

Exactly. No Good, Evil, Law or Chaos radiated. He wouldn't have to be True Neutral, as he would be a champion of the use of Magic in all its forms, but he would do what's necessary to make Magic used more. He wouldn't necessarily make sure that Magic is used in all its aligned forms to keep some semblance of Balance, like that psychopath the Druid.
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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #672 on: March 19, 2015, 03:00:18 pm »

He'd lose his abilities if he did something physical when magic would do!
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Sergius

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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #673 on: March 19, 2015, 03:03:34 pm »

He'd lose his abilities if he did something physical when magic would do!

But that's only if Physical and Magical are opposite alignments :D

Otherwise, we can have a Paladin class that's just good with a sword (maybe gets a few "magic" abilities even tho he has no idea how to do proper studied magic) and he'll go all around saving wizards and cheering them on so they use more magic 8)

Sounds more like a magician advocate than a Paladin. I haven't really thought it thru.
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Re: Tabletop Games Thread
« Reply #674 on: March 19, 2015, 05:29:04 pm »

If I invent a "Paladin of Magic" class, what is his alignment? What does it radiate? Or how about a "Paladin of GP" :D

Paladin of magic is pretty simple. An aura of magic, as per detect magic.

Exactly. No Good, Evil, Law or Chaos radiated. He wouldn't have to be True Neutral, as he would be a champion of the use of Magic in all its forms, but he would do what's necessary to make Magic used more. He wouldn't necessarily make sure that Magic is used in all its aligned forms to keep some semblance of Balance, like that psychopath the Druid.
He would be lawful neutral, and exemplify the path of learning and intelligence. He may even be 'that atheist guy'.
So I think he'd be bound to not tolerate stupidity.
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