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[Scripten]

Thank you for extending. However: Are you unconfident that Deus will turn up scum, Scripten?

To be honest, I'm not sure. Newbie games are tough in that way. His more recent reactions have felt more town. I can tell you that I'd really enjoy seeing Dorsidwarf and NQT show up again to get some interactions from them.

[Dorsidwarf]

Scripten
You said in your response that the two drastically opposing statements towards scintilliant and asmoth are justified because "He's [DA] playing with an antitown mindset".

In what ways do you find Scintilliant's actions ( Bandwagoning, vote-copying, bad reasons, and tunnelling to boot) to be pro-town enough to not only persuade you hes a townie, but to stick your neck out for him repeatedly? Especially considering that several people have found this scummy enough to vote?

[notquitethere]

Apologies for absence: set aside time in the evening to post but fell asleep instead.

Deus Asmoth

If you want to put it like that. My interest in self preservation trumped my desire to defend someone who could very well have turned out to be scum at that point. I wasn't certain, and when I'm uncertain I prefer to get more information. That's a mistake in this game, as I have learned.

It's better to be forthright and bold (but honest), than too cautious. Scum win when town players don't speak up.


Scripten

Your pushes are bugging me, to be honest. You keep making suggestions and it feels manipulative/scummy. I wish I had more meta experience with you to know your scum game better, since, as I said above, you do seem to show pro-town motivation. There's definitely a disconnect going on here, though I'm not sure if it's on your end or mine.

Hmm, if it's any consolation people often find my playstyle odd or slightly jarring as approach the game in a different way to most.

Certainly. If nothing else, it's at least significantly more well-informed, considering we've have two town flips and have VCA to look at. (VCA stands for Vote Count Analysis. It's a useful tool at times.)

Oh I'm definitely in favour of vote count analysis (wasn't aware someone was using an acronym for it). Do you think you'll have time to do that today?


OK, I'm now going to read back through the day and get some fresh reads and reassess my cases.

[Deus Asmoth]

Dorsi, you're voting Scripten because of the difference in his reads on myself and Scintillant and his belief that Scintillant is town. Do you think Scintillant is scummy, and if so why haven't you done much direct communication with him?

[Scripten]

Dorsidwarf

Scripten
You said in your response that the two drastically opposing statements towards scintilliant and asmoth are justified because "He's [DA] playing with an antitown mindset".

In what ways do you find Scintilliant's actions ( Bandwagoning, vote-copying, bad reasons, and tunnelling to boot) to be pro-town enough to not only persuade you hes a townie, but to stick your neck out for him repeatedly? Especially considering that several people have found this scummy enough to vote?

Jumping on bandwagons and tunneling aren't necessarily scumtells. They are not pro-town actions, true, but I very rarely see scum tunnel town. Scum don't want themselves to be that visible. As you saw with Comrade Shamrock, bad reasoning isn't necessarily a scum trait. Though, it is more useful to look at than the last two points, as scum need to fabricate their scumreads and can also be relatively transparent about it. Even copying other players' votes and using their reasons can be town actions. What's important to look at is the way in which they seem to be motivated.

Now, also, think about my play this game. Does it make sense for me to actively work toward avoiding Scintillant being lynched? He's fairly easy mislynch fodder, as I've pointed out on several occasions. Defending him puts me in the limelight and casts suspicion on me. As scum, that would be absolute suicide. No, I have a strong townread from his play and I do not want us to lynch someone I think is town.

...

Are you SURE you're a newbie, Scint? =.=

In terms of games played, very much so. However, I've read a LOT of mafia games here, so I kinda roughly know what to do

This quote might help you see the game from my perspective. Keep in mind that mafia is not a deterministically solvable game. You have to consider the players not as a collection of scum/towntells, but as people with motivations and personalities.

NQT

Hmm, if it's any consolation people often find my playstyle odd or slightly jarring as approach the game in a different way to most.

I got that feeling, hence why I'm not really scumreading you for it right yet. Your scumgame must be absolutely boss, which is a little concerning.

Oh I'm definitely in favour of vote count analysis (wasn't aware someone was using an acronym for it). Do you think you'll have time to do that today?

It's a pretty common thing on some other boards that I play on. I'll probably get around to it later in the game day, though I don't find it useful enough to use as a primary tool this early on. I tend to prefer psychological analysis and emotive pushes on other players early on, along with minor questioning. Later, I move to game state analysis and VCA, when logic is a more practical tool than player reactions.

Deus Asmoth

Dorsi, you're voting Scripten because of the difference in his reads on myself and Scintillant and his belief that Scintillant is town. Do you think Scintillant is scummy, and if so why haven't you done much direct communication with him?

I like this question almost enough to unvote you, DA. Dorsi seems to think that Scintillant and I are a scumteam, though I've explained above why that wouldn't make sense, so I needn't repeat it to you. Does this change your read on Scintillant at all?

[Deus Asmoth]

Not really. My read on Scintillant is that he seems to be trying to get by without drawing attention to himself, looking for votes that he can get behind with reasons that are dubious and hypocritical. He says he's read a lot of mafia games so he knows what he's doing, at least in theory. From the tone of his posts earlier on in the game, I just think that if he were town he'd be a lot more invested in his scumhunting. I'd also be somewhat reluctant to change my read on him based off another player's opinion, particularly when it's off something as subjective as the psychology behind his plays. On the other hand, I do think that Scripten is probably town after reading over his Scintillant related posts again, since it would be a very bad idea for him to be as vocal as he has been about his opinion on Scin if they're both on the scumteam.

[notquitethere]

DAY 2 ACTIONS

Deus Asmoth:

Active, has the most posts for the day (but not the game). Makes two cases (Scintillant/Scripten). Goes after Scintillant for his weak case on Shamrock and general suspicious behaviour. Tackles with various players with cases on him. Sees WIFOM in Cheetah's responses. After a brief Scripten case, goes back to Scintillant, accusing him of piggy-backing his vote. Spends the rest of the day defending himself and gives a few reads. To follow up: Was Scintillant really piggybacking?

Cheeetah:

Active, but most posts are short. Has made two cases (Krusader/Scintillant). Starts the day with a case against Krusader's poor play, then a lot of short questions and replies. Starts to find Deus suspious and follows up on that, with a bit of poking at Krusader's replacement, 4mask. Finally, jumps on Scintillant for his weak case on Deus. To follow up: Was Scintillant's case weak enough to make them a lynch target?

Scintillant

Had the most posts D1, the least posts D2. Starts off with a weak attack (sans vote) on Deus for being uncertain in a game where only scum have full certainty. Votes Deus mostly for being a vague and uncertain. The vote is weak and functionally sealed the wagon on Deus (who would have been lynched were it not for the extension). Wagoning per se isn't scummy: we need to vote the scum by a majority of votes after all. However, the reasons Scintillant stated in his Deus case were pretty flimsy (considering there were better reasons to be voting Asmoth than those stated). Was this piggy-backing? Not necessarily. Was it weak enough to lynch Scintillant over? Only if no one else made a weaker case.

Scripten

Fairly active. Makes one case against Deus. Starts slowly, with some responses and a vote on Deus for weak play. Gets underway and talks to just Deus Asmoth for most of the Day. It almost borders on tunneling, the majority of posts just conversing with one attackee. Could be scum or particularly mono-focused town.

Dorsidwarf

Moderately active. Makes three cases. Starts the day with some strong questioning, provides reads more than once. Jumps on Deus for being jumpy (hard to tell whether fully justified). Presses 4mask on his predecessor's dubious behaviour. Clarifies when makes mistakes. Switches focus to Scripten on his defence of Scintillant. Nothing too unreasonable here.

Wolf

Slow start but a fair presence when he gets going. Made one case so far, relatively quickly rescinded.  Engages with questions and provided reads but then appears to have stopped doing anything (despite being around when the game was extended). Alarm bells are ringing here.

Wolf, do you intend to grace us with a case before the end of the day?


Scripten

It's a pretty common thing on some other boards that I play on.

Really?! I'm glad that there's someone else on this forum who sees some value in looking at the damn votes.

[notquitethere]

Day has been extended, votecount coming soon.

Ah shoot, according to this we're almost at the end of the day. By my count there's currently a tie between Deus and Scintillant. Scintillant has the most posts in the game over all which would make him (according to strong trends) more likely to be town despite his weak performance today. Deus in my view has performed stronger today but was pretty lousy D1 (what with indecision in making a case etc.) Scripten/Scintillant are on Deus and Deus/Cheetah are on Scintillant. I trust Cheeetah more than I do Scripten at this stage. So... Scintillant it has to be. I hope this isn't some horrible mistake.

[4maskwolf]

I WAS AT SCHOOL YOU DOOFUS!!!!! AND THEN AT SWIM PRACTICE!

My strongest suspicion right now is actually you, notquitethere.  You're being even more analytical than you usually are, have made a minimal number of posts today, and changed your vote with only a short time left in the day to someone who you don't even seem suspicious of.  And FYI: you being more analytical than usual sets of alarm bells because you're playing conservatively.  You're playing exactly how we expect you to play, to the point of ridiculousness, because you always deviate slightly from your usual analytical approach.  You posted precious little before the extension, yet I saw you quite often making posts in other areas of the forums, hinting at possible active lurking.

My apologies for not being active, I play when I see something to latch onto.

[4maskwolf]

Also, it's Cheeetar, not Cheeetah.

[notquitethere]

Edited out as per mod's request.

[4maskwolf]

(Edited for end of day, even though nothing was strictly game related)

[Scripten]

-Edited for end of day-
(Sorry guys. Wasn't paying attention)

[4maskwolf]

(edited out me being snarky)

[TheDarkStar]

You decide that Scintillant is probably an alien. The guards are still working out a new strategy for not executing the innocent, so they default to their normal one - shoot first, ask questions later. After executing him by firing squad, the coroner declares that he is not an alien. Oops.

Meanwhile, the guards are on their question stage. They are confused when Scintillant doesn't answer. Then they decide to spend the night reevaluating their approach to getting information out of people.

Votes:

Scripten: Dorsidwarf
Deus Asmoth: Scripten, Scintillant
Dorsidwarf:
4maskwolf:
NotQuiteThere: 4maskwolf,
Scintillant: Deus Asmoth, Cheeetar, NotQuiteThere
Cheeetar:

No Lynch:

Not voting:

Scintillant has been lynched! He was a vanilla townsperson!

Night 2 has begun! Day 3 will begin at 2 AM UTC on Friday, 5 December.

If you posted after the day ended, please edit out anything game-related (starting at reply #340).