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[Scintillant]

RangerCado:
First off, your first and fourth quotes seem to be broken. You might want to look into that.

It's not that you're asking hypothetical questions. It's just that you dismiss the answers as WIFOM. I find these questions are more to find out the person's thought process. What do they think is more important? Possibly offer insight into their gameplay style. It also helps you understand how others perceive things. Also these are hypothetical answers to hypothetical questions, what did you expect? Everything that is hypothetically asked is prone to WIFOM in my opinion. There is no test you can conduct for proof. A lot of the questions are based in an ideal situation which face is rarely if ever going to happen.

I don't exactly understand the emphasized sections. First, you accuse masked_krusader of claiming WIFOM as a defense, but then later in the same paragraph, you essentially say that WIFOM is an acceptable defense because any hypothetical answer can be classified as WIFOM. What's up with that, Comrade?

Scintillant: ...I don't see this. I see a re-affirmation of what he's saying, that you should answer the hypothetical questions with hypothetical answers and not dismiss them as getting into WIFOM with only half answers accompanying them. Why interpret it like this exactly?

It seems to me that he is saying that the questions that started this whole thing were hypothetical, and thus WIFOMable. With this statement, I don't think he's really in a position to complain about masked_krusader dismissing the answers as WIFOM. While I agree that krusader's answers were a bit lacking, I'm not really liking Shamrock's logic here.

I was planning on holding my vote on no lynch until I felt I had enough evidence to call scum with reasonable confidence

Or until near the end of the day, at which point I would vote for the person I thought scummiest.

Votes hold power, and pressure. Use it, don't hold it back until the end. Unvote, Vote Scintillant. Where is this line of thinking coming from?

Note that my first quote says that I would vote when I felt I had enough evidence. These quotes don't mean that I'll sit back, lurk, and let everyone else do all the scumhunting. On the contrary, I plan on continuing to contribute. What I mean was that IF by the end of the day, I still didn't have the evidence I felt I needed to call scum on someone, I would vote for the scummiest person.

Superblackcat:
Would you mind answering this question here?

Any thoughts on the current game state? What do you think about the various goings-on such as the interaction between myself and Comrade Shamrock, the relationship between Shamrock and Scint where they occasionally seem to echo one another, the push by Execute/Dumbo.exe for a NoLynch, or the mysterious absence of Persus13?

[TheDarkStar]

Actually, I just looked at the other periodic DarkStar posts, and all of them say that Day 1 would end a half hour ago.  Hmm...

I think he meant to say 2 AM UTC Friday, instead of Thursday, since we're supposed to have 72 hour days.

Friday was displayed all along. No government coverups are in effect. Carry on as usual. 

[Scintillant]

Superblackcat
Do you expect any silly gambits this game?

No, I do not, It's a pretty standard setup beginner mafia, gambits won't happen, in my opinion, until scum manages to survive to late game. And even then, the chances of it happening are low.

Why do you say "until"? What makes you so certain that scum will survive until late game?

[Deus Asmoth]

Ranger: The initial vote was because trying to skip the lynch made him the most suspicious person to me. His response to that vote was to ask for a replacement and unvote without defending his position at all, which just made me feel like he was trying to see if he could get away with it.

[masked_krusader]

Everyone
Can I get reads?  I think the game has gone long enough that people will have non-null reads on most everyone.

My reads:

• Scripten

  Has been active and scumhunting.  Town lean.  Hasn't posted in a day, however, so that may change.

• Deus Asmoth

  Hasn't been very active.  Slight scum lean.

• Execute/Dumbo.exe

  Hasn't been participating in conversation or scumhunting, then votes no lynch.  Scum/newbie lean.

• Comrade Shamrock

  Tried to push suspicion over an RVS question, then pursues a case without anything on his target.  Scummiest so far.

• RangerCado

  Lurking.  His few posts have had a lot of content, though.  Slight scum lean.

• Scintillant

  Active and scumhunting.  Made some newbie mistakes, but is earnestly learning.  Town lean.

• Masked_Krusader

  The most awesome of the players, obviously.    Super-mega-town.

• Superblackcat

  Lurking IC.  Has answered questions put to him, but hasn't participated otherwise.  Scum lean.

• Persus13

  Lurking because of RL and KYOSN.  When he did post, he put content and substance to his post.  Slight town lean.[/list]

[Comrade Shamrock]

Scripten:
What do you think on this case between masked and Scintillant on me? Please write down your thoughts and then read the part addressed to masked. Has anything changed after you read that?

masked_krusader:

• Comrade Shamrock

  Tried to push suspicion over an RVS question, then pursues a case without anything on his target.  Scummiest so far.

I do admit I did push you on an RVS but so did Scintillant. The exact same question in fact. I was not actually even trying to push a case on you at all. I know full well I don't have anything even remotely substantial. I'm just got a bad feel from your responses. It isn't very easy to put into words either. I was asked by Scintillant on who I thought was the scummiest.

Comrade Shamrock: What are your current top two picks for scum and why?

My responses were you and him.

How is asking hypothetical questions scummy, Comrade?  We're in the RVS stage, so asking hypothetical questions is generally how it starts.  It starts off the conversations that the rest of the game will be based on.  As for the WIFOM, a lot of it was WIFOM.  Both responses to my mafia target question were pushing suspicion based on speculation of how the mafia would play, which is generally useless for scumhunting.  Also, where did I disregard alternate explanations?  If it seemed like I did, I didn't mean to come off that way.

Then you asked me to elaborate so I did. My reasoning is threadbare as I'm full aware, I don't feel confident enough in my reasoning to vote let alone convince another. I was just giving my reasoning behind my feelings not trying to push a case.

Everyone:
Has anyone else noticed that the two people I voiced as my top picks for scum are the only ones voting me? Was anyone else planning on voting me or thought I was scummy enough to make a vote?

DarkStar:
Extendomundo please.

[Deus Asmoth]

Reads:
Scintillant: Doesn't seem to be bringing anything new to the table, and abandoned his no lynch vote as soon as he saw it was unpopular. Possibly has bad timing, could be trying to find a band wagon to jump on. Leaning towards scum for him.

Execute: Inactive, went for a no lynch, asked for a replacement when he got voted for. I'm getting a scum vibe off him, others say it was a newbie mistake, so I may be wrong.

Masked: Seems kind of defensive about earlier questions, still in the grey area but leaning towards town.

Shamrock: Definitely scum hunting, a bit aggressive. Town.

Scripten: Lots of posting, hunting for scum. More than likely town.

I don't have a read on anyone else aside from them not posting a lot.

Shamrock: I'm not getting a scum read off you, though you may be a bit over zealous in your questioning of Masked.

Unvote, my case on Execute appears to be poor at best.

[Scintillant]

Scripten: Most active player besides me and scumhunting. A wee bit sarcastic  Town lean.

Deus Asmoth: Active and scumhunting. Town lean.

Execute: Not posting much, lurky, not contributing to scumhunt, posting is reactive only. Scum and most likely will be my vote once I'm satisfied with Comrade's answer to my question.

masked_krusader: Active and scumhunting. Answers are occasionally vague/WIFOMy. Scum lean.

Comrade: Active, scumhunting, but has occasional vague responses, and needs to answer my question. Slight scum lean.

RangerCado: Not posting much, but occupied with RL. Posts are huge and content-filled. Town lean.

Scintillant: Obviously town 

Superblackcat: Lurking, reactive play, slow with answering questions. Scum lean.

Persus13: Similar to Ranger - not posting much, but his posts have a lot of thought out content. Seems to be occupied with KYOSN and RL. Town lean.

[Scintillant]

I was not actually even trying to push a case on you at all. I know full well I don't have anything even remotely substantial. I'm just got a bad feel from your responses. It isn't very easy to put into words either.

Answer seems a tad evasive, bt I'm satisfied for now. Unvote Comrade. Vote Execute.

[Scripten]

Scripten:

So, looks like we have some new blood in here.

Execute/Dumbo.exe: How do you feel your play will differ this game from when you have a town role?

I'm not completely sure I understand this question. Are you implying that Execute has a scum role?

Yeah. Just a reaction test to see if he panicked. (For example, if he answered hyper-defensively or, less likely, scumslipped in his reply.) Even though he appeared to misunderstand my question, I found his answer to lean more town than scum just by its nature. Of course, this was also literally the first interaction in the game, so my read is liable to change.

First off, I'm not aware of what VIs are Knowledge of terms is not the same as actually knowing what to do. I've read lots of mafia games, so I know most of the terminology. However, having not actually played before this, I don't really know what's considered a good action or a scum action. As you said yoursef, I'm making newbtown mistakes. And that's because I am newbtown.

Hm.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

How would you approach this game as a scummer? Would you prefer a particular method? Active lurking? Lurk like a madman? Play the village idiot? Or perhaps another insidious method?

If I was scum, I would probably do active lurking, posting just enough to appear active, but not enough to let anyone significantly see my alignment. Based on reading other games here, it seems like full-on lurking or village idiot don't seem to work to well, as those scum seem to always get caught out. In terms of overall strategy, I'd figure out which town person is the most likely to find me out (this would probably the most experienced person), and pull suspicion onto them to try and get them lynched. If that doesn't work, and assuming I don't get lynched myself, I'd NK that person.

You sure about that?

Scripten:
What do you think on this case between masked and Scintillant on me? Please write down your thoughts and then read the part addressed to masked. Has anything changed after you read that?

-snip-

Everyone:
Has anyone else noticed that the two people I voiced as my top picks for scum are the only ones voting me? Was anyone else planning on voting me or thought I was scummy enough to make a vote?

Eh, it's a fairly standard newbie game case. Masked_krusader appears to be pursuing a bit of OMGUS, but that's not particularly telling in this situation. Scintillant is mislynch-bait, IMO. He's new and has read some games, but his play is currently newbtown rather than newbscum. That said, I don't appreciate his taking refuge in inexperience.

And yes, I've noticed that. I don't think it's as much of a scumtell as you may think it is. It's easy to get caught up feeling that the scumteam is after you. One thing that I've noticed is that, oftentimes, tunnels between players are town vs. town. (A tunnel is essentially an argument that excludes the greater game state.)

Everyone: Superblackcat is probably scum. Note the difference between his play and Persus13's. Can everyone give me as in-depth a list as they can hack as to what SBC has contributed to the game?

Deus Asmoth is also on my scum radar. Would not be surprised if they were the scumteam.

[Scintillant]

First off, I'm not aware of what VIs are Knowledge of terms is not the same as actually knowing what to do. I've read lots of mafia games, so I know most of the terminology. However, having not actually played before this, I don't really know what's considered a good action or a scum action. As you said yoursef, I'm making newbtown mistakes. And that's because I am newbtown.

Hm.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

How would you approach this game as a scummer? Would you prefer a particular method? Active lurking? Lurk like a madman? Play the village idiot? Or perhaps another insidious method?

If I was scum, I would probably do active lurking, posting just enough to appear active, but not enough to let anyone significantly see my alignment. Based on reading other games here, it seems like full-on lurking or village idiot don't seem to work to well, as those scum seem to always get caught out. In terms of overall strategy, I'd figure out which town person is the most likely to find me out (this would probably the most experienced person), and pull suspicion onto them to try and get them lynched. If that doesn't work, and assuming I don't get lynched myself, I'd NK that person.

You sure about that?

Derp :/ Knew the term, but not the abbreviation.

Everyone: Superblackcat is probably scum. Note the difference between his play and Persus13's. Can everyone give me as in-depth a list as they can hack as to what SBC has contributed to the game?

He has, in order:
Joined as IC
Asked two questions here

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well guys, First time IC here, and lets get this game underway!!

Scint: What thought process would you have if you were the JKer?
masked: How do you think you should play this game?

Answered a question from scripten here

Spoiler: Question (click to show/hide)

Scint: What thought process would you have if you were the JKer?

Hm.
Unvote Execute/Dumbo.exe
Vote Superblackcat
What sort of alignment-indicative information were you hoping to glean from an answer to that question?

Spoiler: Answer (click to show/hide)

I apologize Scripten, I though Scint asked that question. Here's the answer:

Scint: It's just shitty RVS questions by a bad IC. Nothing else. Trying to get people talking. Apparently I don't need to do that

(I feel this answer is suspicious. It seems to be slightly excuse-y)
As IC, recommended against no-lynch, like several others.
Answered a question from masked_krusader

Spoiler: Question (click to show/hide)

Superblackcat
Do you expect any silly gambits this game?

Spoiler: Answer (click to show/hide)

No, I do not, It's a pretty standard setup beginner mafia, gambits won't happen, in my opinion, until scum manages to survive to late game. And even then, the chances of it happening are low.

And that's it.

[Deus Asmoth]

Scintillant, why are you voting for Execute over SBC considering you've given the same reasoning for your scum read on both of them?

[Scintillant]

Scintillant, why are you voting for Execute over SBC considering you've given the same reasoning for your scum read on both of them?

Execute has posted slightly less and has done less scumhunting. Also, I want to get him to contribute. However, FoS Superblackcat.

[Comrade Shamrock]

Scintillant:

It's not that you're asking hypothetical questions. It's just that you dismiss the answers as WIFOM. I find these questions are more to find out the person's thought process. What do they think is more important? Possibly offer insight into their gameplay style. It also helps you understand how others perceive things. Also these are hypothetical answers to hypothetical questions, what did you expect? Everything that is hypothetically asked is prone to WIFOM in my opinion. There is no test you can conduct for proof. A lot of the questions are based in an ideal situation which face is rarely if ever going to happen.

I don't exactly understand the emphasized sections. First, you accuse masked_krusader of claiming WIFOM as a defense, but then later in the same paragraph, you essentially say that WIFOM is an acceptable defense because any hypothetical answer can be classified as WIFOM. What's up with that, Comrade?

Sorry about missing this. I'm not claiming WIFOM is an acceptable defence. It's just that I think that RVS questions will always have a little WIFOM no matter what, as you have absolutely no clue as to their alignment or at least not a good enough grasp. He then dismissed our interrupt to night kill question as WIFOM. While yes it could well be interpreted as that. I can't help but think it may have been something else.

Scripten:
I'm not saying it was a huge scumtell but I find both people I selected a bit too coincidental. But then don't take my word for it, I'm a bit paranoid. Could just be hurt feelings bleeding over (on both sides too).

It could also be his playstyle. But yes he posts very little (content wise, he has more posts but has offered less than Persus), has so far offered little in the way of advice (Persus has both voted and Fos'ed) and no suspicions are given or even hinted at despite a large amount of available posts to draw a conclusion from.

[Scripten]

Scintillant, why are you voting for Execute over SBC considering you've given the same reasoning for your scum read on both of them?

Execute has posted slightly less and has done less scumhunting. Also, I want to get him to contribute. However, FoS Superblackcat.

This is not true. Execute has posted two more times than SBC and his posts have more content than SBC's.

Also keep in mind that SBC is an IC, so some of his content is also a part of his responsibility as that role rather than as legitimate game content.

Also, pretty sure we'll need to extend. Want to see more from the less talkative folk.