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[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

Okay, just woke up here (time zones)

Execute/Dumbo.exe:

Execute/Dumbo.exe: How do you feel your play will differ this game from when you have a town role?

Quite a lot, I would suspect, for one thing, I won't have to plan out my posts quite so much.

Could you explain exactly what you mean by this? Why would posts require less planning as scum vs. town?

Hold on, what?
Rereading here...
Ah, I see.
Sorry, that was a badly worded post there, what I meant to say was that as scum it takes a lot of planning while as town I don't need to worry so much as I can actually go on my actual cases without having to plan for an hour every post.

I was confused because the only part of mafia I participated in before this was as scum so I assumed you were talking about that instance compared to as if I was town instead.

[Deus Asmoth]

Shamrock:Do you think it's a good think when multiple people are asking a single person questions to apply more pressure, or is that just running the risk of scum jumping on an easy target?

Crusader: What would your scum strategy be, then?

[masked_krusader]

Crusader: What would your scum strategy be, then?

If I were scum, I would try to scumhunt as best as I could without actually targeting any buddies, and be active, so I wouldn't fall prey to the "lurker = scum -> autolynch" thing that happens basically every game.

Scripten
If a scummy player was lynched, but flipped town, how would you proceed?

Execute/Dumbo.exe
If it got down to MYLO, would you attempt to hang scum, or push for a no-lynch to get more info?

Comrade Shamrock
If you had a power role, and someone fakeclaimed your role, would you claim to get them lynched, or push suspicion on them to avoid getting NK'd?

RangerCado
How would you deal with lurkers?

Scintillant
If you were a Jailkeeper, would you try to protect an NK target, or try to block a scum directly?

Superblackcat
Do you expect any silly gambits this game?

Persus13
Where you at, bro?

[Scripten]

Scripten
If a scummy player was lynched, but flipped town, how would you proceed?

Take a look at the wagon that got them lynched. Look for people on the wagon but not particularly committing to it. Move on to other reads. Mislynches are just a fact of the game. Getting too upset over one can shake up your town game.

What about this question do you think suggests at my alignment?

[Comrade Shamrock]

Scripten:

Scripten:
If you won't confront, are you at least going to ask questions?

This is a leading question and I don't like that. What do you think, considering my play so far?

A question! Well at least it's an improvement. I had hoped to provoke more active involvement.

(Town approach)I feel like you are going to hang back until someone does something you find particularly scummy and then apply pressure until either they give more away or do something that makes you think they are town.

(Scum approach)Pretty much the same as town. Except you hope to catch someone who does something you think is enough to start an argument and possibly get a lynch. Either that or you could stage a fight with your scum buddy so as if one of you turns up the less likely you will be to be suspected.

Sadly I don't think I would really spot the difference between the two and so this isn't very helpful to me. Why did you ask this anyway?

Deus:
I would go for group questioning. Even if scum gets into the questioning he has less of an impact if he was the only questioner. I also feel people will devote more thought to it as they are directly involved.

But if it does lead to a lynch. The scum involved does have to craft an excuse as to why they were involved otherwise they will be seen as a bandwagoner going for an easy target.

masked_krusader
I would claim to get them lynched. Trying to push suspicion is not guaranteed to get them lynched neither is it a guarantee of protection against a night kill. I might just get killed for pushing suspicion towards them. I would rather go for the more guaranteed method.

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

Execute/Dumbo.exe
If it got down to MYLO, would you attempt to hang scum, or push for a no-lynch to get more info?

Well, first up I would like to know what MYLO means? Does it mean when if town lunches the wrong person the scum win or something?

[Scripten]

A question! Well at least it's an improvement. I had hoped to provoke more active involvement.

 

If you're just going to misrepresent my play, you can go straight to my scum bloc. If you truly believe that my play is suboptimal, I'm going to ask you to back that gak up.

(Town approach)I feel like you are going to hang back until someone does something you find particularly scummy and then apply pressure until either they give more away or do something that makes you think they are town.

(Scum approach)Pretty much the same as town. Except you hope to catch someone who does something you think is enough to start an argument and possibly get a lynch. Either that or you could stage a fight with your scum buddy so as if one of you turns up the less likely you will be to be suspected.

So what makes you think that you have such a firm grasp of the way I play mafia? You're setting up a strawman here to knock down, and I find this underhanded.

Sadly I don't think I would really spot the difference between the two and so this isn't very helpful to me. Why did you ask this anyway?

I was asking you to look back through my play so far, since you're pushing untruths.

[Comrade Shamrock]

Scripten:
You kind of laid it out earlier on.

Scripten:
You seem to be trying to ingratiate yourself with other players. Directly with Scintillant and indirectly with others. While it could just be good gamesmanship, I'm wondering whether it has an ulterior motive.

I'll get to confronting people when it's necessary. Being polite and being compliant are different entirely.

I think that pretty much covers it. You said that you would confront people when the time came to it. This then went into the approaches I gave to your possible approach to the game.

You also asked my what I would think what you would do. What did you expect, for me to ignore the question?

Scripten:
If you won't confront, are you at least going to ask questions?

This is a leading question and I don't like that. What do you think, considering my play so far?

I took this to mean you were asking what I'd think you'd do so I developed what you said above into a possible approach.

Now could you please tell me what has you so uppity about my responses. Or are you trying to twist my words?

[Scripten]

Scripten:
You seem to be trying to ingratiate yourself with other players. Directly with Scintillant and indirectly with others. While it could just be good gamesmanship, I'm wondering whether it has an ulterior motive.

I'll get to confronting people when it's necessary. Being polite and being compliant are different entirely.

I think that pretty much covers it. You said that you would confront people when the time came to it. This then went into the approaches I gave to your possible approach to the game.

Being confrontational is not the only way to play the game. It's unnecessary to employ in all situations. You then twisted my words to imply that I was not participating in the game. That's untrue and, frankly, insulting.

You also asked my what I would think what you would do. What did you expect, for me to ignore the question?

Scripten:
If you won't confront, are you at least going to ask questions?

This is a leading question and I don't like that. What do you think, considering my play so far?

I took this to mean you were asking what I'd think you'd do so I developed what you said above into a possible approach.

Now could you please tell me what has you so uppity about my responses. Or are you trying to twist my words?

I specifically meant for you to go back and reread my play this game. I'll admit to being sarcastic, but I greatly dislike the way you're presenting my play and I feel it's a misrepresentation. Can you back up the claim you're pushing that my play has not been optimal or town-oriented?

[masked_krusader]

masked_krusader
I would claim to get them lynched. Trying to push suspicion is not guaranteed to get them lynched neither is it a guarantee of protection against a night kill. I might just get killed for pushing suspicion towards them. I would rather go for the more guaranteed method.

True enough, though claiming may not work either, but that's WIFOM territory again.

Execute/Dumbo.exe
If it got down to MYLO, would you attempt to hang scum, or push for a no-lynch to get more info?

Well, first up I would like to know what MYLO means? Does it mean when if town lunches the wrong person the scum win or something?

MYLO, I believe, means there are two more town than scum; therefore, if a mislynch occurs, scum will nightkill and it will be even numbers, meaning scum victory.

[Comrade Shamrock]

Scripten:
I did not mean to say your game is sub-optimal. It's just that you are playing in a mainly reactive manner. Very few questions seem to come from you. You provide well detailed answers and offer advice. But if we look back I think you have addressed two people in an inquiry without a prompt. These were both Persus and Blackcat, our absentee ICs. Then there is the spat we just had, which I provoked by basically insulting you (sorry about that).

Now we are warned that the greatest killer of BM games is inactivety. This is what I find a slight problem. As one of the more experienced players your reactive approach is not providing the best example for us newbies. Especially since the ICs are nowhere to be seen in terms of actual gameplay, the mentor role falls to you. So I was trying to get you to become more proactive as an example to help us learn from someone who has experience.

masked_krusader:
But if there is a counterclaim it means that someone is definitely a liar.

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

Execute/Dumbo.exe
If it got down to MYLO, would you attempt to hang scum, or push for a no-lynch to get more info?

Well, first up I would like to know what MYLO means? Does it mean when if town lunches the wrong person the scum win or something?

MYLO, I believe, means there are two more town than scum; therefore, if a mislynch occurs, scum will nightkill and it will be even numbers, meaning scum victory.

Right, thought so.
Well, in that case, I would have to go for no lynch, as if there becomes one less player, then it becomes easier to figure out who is scum, because hey, if you pick the wrong guy you were still going to lose.

[Scintillant]

Okay, just got back, reading updates now. Expect responses and questions within half an hour.

[Scintillant]

Masked_Krusader: My gut is telling me that something is off with your response here

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Your question here

Deus Asmoth
If you were mafia, who would you target?

seems scummy. It feels like a very good escape method if you were mafia. This way, you can safely NK whoever he says and then pin it on him. What was your reasoning behind this question?

I didn't even think of that scenario because it seems incredibly transparent.  It also smells of WIFOM, but mostly it just seems like a way-too-prone-to-fail scum plan.
My reasoning behind asking it was that I thought it was a harmless RVS question.
[/quote]

but I'm going to unvote anyways. Also, wrt to your question:

If you were a Jailkeeper, would you try to protect an NK target, or try to block a scum directly?

Depends on how many scum were left. If there was only one left, I'd block him so that NK is guaranteed prevented. If there's more than one, I'd go for the NK target, seeing as blocking one scum would still allow the other to make the NK (I think that's how it works at least).

Execute/Dumbo.exe: I'm still a bit suspicious of you, but I'm mostly satisfied with your response for now.

Persus13: I know that others have said this already, but stop lurking and get out here. You haven't posted at all yet.

RangerCado: Same goes for you, all you've said is that you'll reply "before the end of the day". Get out here and contribute to the scumhunt, or at the very least, answer the questions we've asked you. At this point, your lack of response is getting suspicious.

Scripten:

Scripten:
If you won't confront, are you at least going to ask questions?

This is a leading question and I don't like that. What do you think, considering my play so far?

Here, I feel you're being evasive. While you do prove that you'll ask questions by asking a question, you didn't explain why you weren't asking questions. In case you state that the original question didn't explicitly ask for you to provide that, well, I'm going to ask that now. Why have you asked so few questions? By my count, you've asked only two (not counting your argument with masked_krusader).

Comrade Shamrock: What are your current top two picks for scum and why?

[Scripten]

Scripten:

Scripten:
If you won't confront, are you at least going to ask questions?

This is a leading question and I don't like that. What do you think, considering my play so far?

Here, I feel you're being evasive. While you do prove that you'll ask questions by asking a question, you didn't explain why you weren't asking questions. In case you state that the original question didn't explicitly ask for you to provide that, well, I'm going to ask that now. Why have you asked so few questions? By my count, you've asked only two (not counting your argument with masked_krusader).

Actually, my interaction was with Comrade Shamrock, not masked_krusader.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So, looks like we have some new blood in here.

Execute/Dumbo.exe: How do you feel your play will differ this game from when you have a town role?

Scripten: If you were mafia, how would you approach this game? If you were town?

If I was scum(mafia), I'd ask others how they play and what they look out for. And not do those things.

As town, I read the way people act when questioned. Evasiveness, pedantry, and a number of other basic scumtells are useful early on for pushing reads. (This is neither exhaustive nor 100% accurate.) Later, I analyze where a player sits on various wagons, how they voted, and the way they pushed cases.

Why did you choose to vote me and why do you expect that you have a lower survival chance as a newbie?

Everyone: How much mafia experience do you have?

A good few games now, both here and off-site. This will probably be my last newbie game before I start ICing.

I've read a few of the mafia games here and saw your name come up a few times, so I figured you might be as good a place to start as any. As for the survival chance, I'm worried that I'll make some noob mistake in questioning someone and that it'll get misinterpreted as a scum tell, getting me lynched.

Good answer. Word to the wise. Don't worry so much about keeping yourself alive. Getting mislynched -is- anti-town, if you are a townie. That said, if you're hunting scum and progressing the game state, you are not likely to get mislynched, even if you do make a mistake or two. Don't let fear of messing up interfere with your play and you'll likely avoid being mislynched.

As far as dying at night, consider it a compliment from the scum team; saying that you're dangerous enough for them to need you eliminated.

Scint: What thought process would you have if you were the JKer?

Hm.

Unvote Execute/Dumbo.exe
Vote Superblackcat

What sort of alignment-indicative information were you hoping to glean from an answer to that question?

Everyone: How much mafia experience do you have?

Never played before myself, so we'll see how it goes.

Scintillant, you seem very concerned about being seen as scum very early on in the game. That's probably not suspicious by itself I guess, but it's the only thing worthy of note so far from my point of view.

The best way to get the game moving is to ask questions and try to get reactions out of other players. Stating observations is good, as it shows you are paying attention to other players, but getting out and hunting for scum is the most important task a townie can do. Don't be afraid to confront other players directly. Make your scumhunting direct and solid, so scum can't weasel out of your questions with non-answers.

Scripten:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to recall a game involving you (I don't think you were scum in it) in which the scum picked their targets on whether or not their deaths would provide much to speculate on. They picked on the quiet and those without many suspicions.

That's usually the case when we have quiet town who aren't being scumread. This is why an active town is very important. It makes every death informative and gives the mafia less room to hide.

Scripten
How do you see this game going?  Besides almost inevitable scum-win because BM, anyway.

Town are probably going to get burnt out, leaving us with very little to go on, and then the mafia are probably going to hide in the lurkers like usual. Though, we do seem to have players who are relatively unafraid to actually participate this time.

Persus13: Heyo, any thoughts so far?

Scripten
If a scummy player was lynched, but flipped town, how would you proceed?

Take a look at the wagon that got them lynched. Look for people on the wagon but not particularly committing to it. Move on to other reads. Mislynches are just a fact of the game. Getting too upset over one can shake up your town game.

What about this question do you think suggests at my alignment?

This is a collection of posts "counting questions" (which is a poor way to represent a player's play to begin with) and does not include my argument with Comrade Shamrock. Now, explain why you're attacking the strawman that Comrade Shamrock built on a misrepresentation of my play, please?