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Author Topic: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России  (Read 262443 times)

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Culise

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1936 on: January 12, 2015, 04:06:33 pm »

Indeed.  The official statement.  At a guess, the Ukrainian government finally put together enough evidential proof to convince Interpol to act, since they quietly ignored the last request.  Politically motivated by Ukraine, very probably, but if sufficient grounds to put out a Red Notice exists, it would be even more unfortunate for Interpol to have ignored the issue in contravention of their own rules. 
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These Red Notices are not connected to a previous request made by Ukraine in March 2014 for a Red Notice to be issued for Victor Yanukovych on charges including abuse of power and murder. This request was assessed by INTERPOL as not compliant with the Organization’s rules and regulations and was refused.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 04:08:20 pm by Culise »
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smjjames

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1937 on: January 12, 2015, 04:34:29 pm »

Interesting that he was born in the Donetsk region.

There's no doubt that there is political motivation behind it, but the charges certainly aren't.

I doubt that Russia would just hand yanukovich over to Ukraine, no idea if they can be forced to.
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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1938 on: January 12, 2015, 04:49:03 pm »

Interesting that he was born in the Donetsk region.

There's no doubt that there is political motivation behind it, but the charges certainly aren't.

I doubt that Russia would just hand yanukovich over to Ukraine, no idea if they can be forced to.
I don't think that anybody cares about Yanukovich enough to want to keep him.
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Culise

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1939 on: January 12, 2015, 04:56:23 pm »

Interesting that he was born in the Donetsk region.

There's no doubt that there is political motivation behind it, but the charges certainly aren't.

I doubt that Russia would just hand yanukovich over to Ukraine, no idea if they can be forced to.
Nope, can't be forced.  Actually, that article explains Red Notices fairly well.  Essentially, a Red Notice is a way for Interpol to tell member nations - Russia included - that a warrant has been put out in another country for such-and-such a person under such-and-such a criminal charge (or charges).  While most nations treat Red Notices as due cause for an arrest, especially in more straightforward requests, there's no actual obligation for any nation to make the arrest or to request Interpol's assistance in making the arrest unless there's an actual extradition treaty in effect.  Interpol is more of a liaising agency; they don't kick down doors and take names. 

I don't think that anybody cares about Yanukovich enough to want to keep him.
Heavens, no, Russia doesn't care about Yanukovich for his own sake; I don't even think Putin likes Yanukovich on a personal level, and Yanukovich has certainly been thoroughly sidelined in the present situation regardless of how you consider Russian involvement or lack therein.  Putin's interest in keeping Yanukovich out of Ukrainian authorities is purely due to his political interests in Ukraine, and his unwillingness to take actions that could be seen as formally legitimizing the present Kyiv government. 

EDIT: It's worth noting that this actually is the second major situation with Interpol being abused as a political weapon in this incident.  Russia placed a request for a Red Notice for Dmytro Yarosh (listed as Dimitry) for "public incitement to terrorist activities involving the use of mass media [and] public incitement to extremist activities involving the use of mass media" in July of last year.  Ukraine, by the same token, has been under no obligation to extradite the leader of the Right Sector, either, and has shown no indication that they will do so.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 05:01:48 pm by Culise »
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Descan

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1940 on: January 12, 2015, 04:56:50 pm »

I can see Russia keeping Yanny, only because Interpol/Ukraine wants him. But other than pure spite, I don't see any reason for Russia to keep him.
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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1941 on: January 12, 2015, 05:01:42 pm »

I can see Russia keeping Yanny, only because Interpol/Ukraine wants him. But other than pure spite, I don't see any reason for Russia to keep him.
Pure spite might be reason enough, if Putin wants to show his unwillingness to bend over to the western demands. Or he may instead hand Yany over to show his willingness to compromise and negotiate in the coming talks.
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Sheb

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1942 on: January 12, 2015, 05:03:02 pm »

Does Russia has an extradition treaty with Ukraine?
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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1943 on: January 12, 2015, 05:03:57 pm »

Does Russia has an extradition treaty with Ukraine?
No.
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Culise

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1944 on: January 12, 2015, 05:06:34 pm »

I can see Russia keeping Yanny, only because Interpol/Ukraine wants him. But other than pure spite, I don't see any reason for Russia to keep him.
Pure spite might be reason enough, if Putin wants to show his unwillingness to bend over to the western demands. Or he may instead hand Yany over to show his willingness to compromise and negotiate in the coming talks.
It's not a matter of spite, and I don't think he'll do it unilaterally.  Keeping Yanukovich in his pocket gives Putin another lever with the Ukrainian government, albeit a very small one.  I don't see him giving that up for nothing more than soft words, any more than they gave up Snowden. 
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smjjames

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1945 on: January 12, 2015, 05:08:55 pm »

@culise: that second one is a thinly veiled political one, IMO.
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Sheb

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1946 on: January 12, 2015, 05:15:06 pm »

Although the second was a great boon to Russia. Even without taking into account the intelligence Russia might have got from Snowden's computers, he did more damage to the US's reputation than anyone since Bush. No matter what Russia does regarding freedom of speech or spying, the US cannot call them out without looking like hypocrites.
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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1947 on: January 12, 2015, 05:15:49 pm »

My point is that nobody gives a crap about Yany anymore. If Putin keeps him, it will elicit at most an "okay, fine" response from Kyiv.
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Dutchling

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1948 on: January 12, 2015, 05:21:48 pm »

Doesn't Russia insist the Kiev government is illegitimate? I mean, the Russians here seem to.

Handing out Yanu would mean they recognize the revolution, or at least make it look like they do, no?
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Culise

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1949 on: January 12, 2015, 05:24:24 pm »

@culise: that second one is a thinly veiled political one, IMO.
Yes, as would keeping Yanukovich.  That was an implicit point in picking that particular example. ^_^

Doesn't Russia insist the Kiev government is illegitimate? I mean, the Russians here seem to.

Handing out Yanu would mean they recognize the revolution, or at least make it look like they do, no?
And yes, I'm pretty sure this is still correct.  Turning over Yanukovich means Russia is implicitly recognizing the Kyiv government's legitimacy in placing charges against and trying Ukrainian citizens, and more generally, its rule over Ukraine.  It's not something Putin can afford to do at this juncture, given the present Russian position on the matter.
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