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[Comrade P.]

I'm suddenly interested in what can go horribly wrong if we keep our attitude towards gays in way said above:

As long as people cannot tell you're gay you're okay.

[smeeprocket]

Well, if nobody speaks out against them, you can see why some people might draw a negative conclusion about the attitudes of the general populace. This could apply to so many current issues, such as Islamic extremism, race issues in the USA... heck, compile your own list!

Exactly, and I assumed all of this was quite on topic.

If you are not helping the oppressed in your society, ESPECIALLY when they are legally mandated to be silent about their existence, you are perpetuating said oppression.

Fighting the system is frightening, and can lead to bad things, but not fighting it results in far worse.

Gays are not legally mandated to be silent, they are as welcome to speak out as anybody in Russia, including the hysterically anti-Putin newspapers such as "The New Times."

MonkeyHead: I'd say that backlashes against such extreme views do happen more often than not, both in Russia and in the rest of the world, the foreign media just never focuses on them.

as long as they don't mention anything gay oriented right? Like the things you are denying happen to any real degree? They can't talk about that or really even assert they exist without fear of reprisal.

I'm suddenly interested in what can go horribly wrong if we keep our attitude towards gays in way said above:

As long as people cannot tell you're gay you're okay.

This seems like an obtuse question. Or perhaps rhetorical. Why not look at any other situation in which a minority is oppressed and silenced as a matter of law and where that led.

[Sergarr]

Most people are oppressed in Russia, smeepocket.

And what "worse" can there be for a country that up to 35 million people in WW2 and up to 10 million people in 90s?

(source for 10 million people figure)

[Comrade P.]

Divisions into groups based on opinions on various questions is inevitable.

Why in blazes should majority bend over for minorities, again?

[MonkeyHead]

Why in blazes should majority bend over for minorities, again?

Told y'all this was a frequently expressed opinion, didn't I?

[smeeprocket]

I saw mentions of neo-liberalism in there. That is a nasty disease. It never goes well.

I think what you may ultimately see, assuming people remain passive and indifferent to the issues, and those with the kind of power society has given them (even if that is very little) don't amplify the voices of the oppressed, and that includes groups other than LGBT+ people, of course, is imprisonment for just being gay, or like in the US, conversion therapy (do you have that in Russia, it's horrific)

Comrade, I'm a bit shocked that you would ask that question. No one is asking the majority to "bend over", they are asking them to raise their boot and stop grinding it down, or perhaps prevent others of their kind from grinding down their boot.

It is about equality, comrade.

[Knit tie]

I'm suddenly interested in what can go horribly wrong if we keep our attitude towards gays in way said above:

As long as people cannot tell you're gay you're okay.

This seems like an obtuse question. Or perhaps rhetorical. Why not look at any other situation in which a minority is oppressed and silenced as a matter of law and where that led.

Nowhere in particular until a civil rights movement sprung up?

Also, due to the "gay propaganda law" applying only to the sexualised images of gays in mass media, homosexual people can say that that are gay in Russia and talk about their experiences being gay without any legal repercussions, there is even a site dedicated to that named gay.ru.

Why in blazes should majority bend over for minorities, again?

Told y'all this was a frequently expressed opinion, didn't I?

P., could you please elaborate your statement for us?

[Sergarr]

It is about equality, comrade.

Yes, it's about equality, which is why these people should not ask for special treatment.

After all, we're all equally oppressed by Russian wealth...

[smeeprocket]

It is about equality, comrade.

Yes, it's about equality, which is why these people should not ask for special treatment.

After all, we're all equally oppressed by Russian wealth...

No you are not. You can marry and love whoever you want. You can kiss your girl or boyfriend on the streat and not risk violence or arrest. You can drive, you can speak out about issues that matter to you. Even when the majority is oppressed, they must recognize when a minority is being further oppressed. The fight must be on all fronts.

[MonkeyHead]

It is about equality, comrade.

Yes, it's about equality, which is why these people should not ask for special treatment.

After all, we're all equally oppressed by Russian wealth...

... and there it is again - that "majority" attitude I mentioned on that last page.

Wanting the same rights as everyone else is not special treatment. If anything, being denied the same rights as anyone else is a kind of negative special treatment.

[Comrade P.]

Comrade, I'm a bit shocked that you would ask that question. No one is asking the majority to "bend over", they are asking them to raise their boot and stop grinding it down, or perhaps prevent others of their kind from grinding down their boot.

It is about equality, comrade.

In a situation where either 10 people are unhappy with current state of things and 10000 are happy, or 10000 are pissed and 10 are finally happy because the boot grinding them has finally stopped, the former you call equality?

[MonkeyHead]

Comrade, I'm a bit shocked that you would ask that question. No one is asking the majority to "bend over", they are asking them to raise their boot and stop grinding it down, or perhaps prevent others of their kind from grinding down their boot.

It is about equality, comrade.

In a situation where either 10 people are unhappy with current state of things and 10000 are happy, or 10000 are pissed and 10 are finally happy because the boot grinding them has finally stopped, the former you call equality?

When the 10 lose a lot to keep the 10000 happy, and by making the 10 happy the 10000 would have little or no noticeable difference in their life, yes, yes I would call that equality. Equality is not about making people happy or sad or angry any other emotion. It is about giving all humans the same rights and responsibilities.

[smeeprocket]

And I keep getting called a collectivist. Ha!

The needs of the many do not outweigh the needs of the few. If need be you must suffer as much as those ten so that you have proper motivation to lift them up in society.

[Sergarr]

The needs of the many do not outweigh the needs of the few

This is explicitly against the very core of the Russian culture.

You're not going to go far with these words in Russia, trust me.

[Comrade P.]

The needs of the many do not outweigh the needs of the few.

Okay now, I get it. My whole problem is with this statement.