Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[smeeprocket]

I think you might not be entirely rational when it comes to the whole social equality topic, Smeeps.

Even easier when rather than dealing with an issue you can just commit the tu quoque fallacy and decry any evidence as anti-Russian propaganda.

I would like to ask you first if you have any scientific evidence of active LGBT persecution being widespread in Russia.

Mictlan, why did you link Russia Today, of all things?

What, the law? Are there any examples of similarly dumb laws being rescinded anywhere in the world at all?

Well most developed Western states haven't criminalised homosexuality lately or implemented laws as stupid and draconian as that for quite a long time so it's hard to find an example. But giving that bullshit as a defense is pretty desparate, Knit Tie, I must say.

I am just wondering what we should genuinely expect Russian government to do when it realizes that it shot itself in the PR leg with this law: try to pass it off as intentional or nullify it as publicly and loudly as possible?

It's one thing to be proud of your country, tbh, for all its faults I like being an American and living in America. (don't ever make me say that again.) But it's impossible for a country to be perfect, and recognizing faults to try and push back against them is imperative.

I am not saying that Russia is a good country for LGBT people, I am merely saying that its faults in this area are exaggerated.

Not entirely rational? You'll have to explain that one.

Let me clarify. Your country passed a law banning homosexuals to talk out about homosexuality in any form. They get arrested if they do.

Just curious, if they decide to burn all gays would you say it is only because the winter is so cold, and SOMEBODY had to be burned?

[Guardian G.I.]

But you yourself have repeatedly stated that the Russian public is, by and large, homophobic and transphobic. Is it that hard to imagine the local DMV employee deciding to enforce this law to take a crap on trans people?

First, how will the local DMV employee know that somebody is trans, and second, cases of active LGBT persecution are as isolated and extremely rare in Russia as they are in other BRIC countries. The general public does not venture beyond passive disapproval and prejudice.

that's not true at all. I just linked a trailer for a documentary showing how bad things are. Many people in the public appear to perceive homosexuals as pedophiles. And I sincerely doubt, with the laws that have been passed, that persecution by officials is rare.

These vigilante groups that lure in homosexuals and then assault them get no arrests or punishments, for example. They are very public with their actions.

The most well-known such group, "Occupy-Pedofilyai" led by a Russian neo-Nazi activist Maxim "Tesak" Martinkevich, and other offshoot groups aren't on good terms with the Russian authorities. Martinkevich is in prison since August 2014, convicted for inciting ethnic hatred, humiliating human dignity with the use of force and hooliganism. His fellow neo-Nazi, Filip "Donitz" Razinsky, who played the role of bait in Tesak's group, tried to create a similar group and also got arrested; the investigation is currently ongoing. Other members of Tesak's group were arrested at least twice - in Sverdlovsk in August 2013 and Novosibirsk in October 2014.
Activities of similar anti-gay groups were suppressed in Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Belarus.

[LordSlowpoke]

mict do you know what spoilers are

for real m8

[Knit tie]

Mictlan, where did you get that quote?

[Sheb]

From the Russia Today article.

[Knit tie]

From the Russia Today article.

I asked because I agree with it: Russia does have a homophobia problem, it's stupid to deny that.

Smeeps, I am saying that because you said that the USA, with all its multiculturalism and equality propaganda and party lines, is racist as a whole.

[Sheb]

So you agree that Russia by and large is homophobic? So what are we arguing about again?

[smeeprocket]

From the Russia Today article.

I asked because I agree with it: Russia does have a homophobia problem, it's stupid to deny that.

You aren't directly denying it, but instead dismissing it, downplaying it, sweeping it under the rug. But you are not in a position to know how serious the problem is. Your govt forbids you from hearing or reading about it. There's no way you could know the extent of the problem.

[LordSlowpoke]

actually no

[smeeprocket]

From the Russia Today article.

I asked because I agree with it: Russia does have a homophobia problem, it's stupid to deny that.

Smeeps, I am saying that because you said that the USA, with all its multiculturalism and equality propaganda and party lines, is racist as a whole.

I live in the USA, I directly see the racism. There is no gag order on issues of racism here. The US is racist as all hell. We have an entire political part dedicated to it. Since Obama got elected, racism has become even more severe.

So there's that.

[Guardian G.I.]

From the Russia Today article.

I asked because I agree with it: Russia does have a homophobia problem, it's stupid to deny that.

You aren't directly denying it, but instead dismissing it, downplaying it, sweeping it under the rug. But you are not in a position to know how serious the problem is. Your govt forbids you from hearing or reading about it. There's no way you could know the extent of the problem.

Some links from my previous post belong to major Russian media sources, such as AiF and lenta.ru, and they freely described the activities of anti-gay groups and their attacks on people deemed as paedophiles. They wouldn't even mention these groups in any way if the Russian government really tried to prevent everyone from being aware about it.

[Knit tie]

So you agree that Russia by and large is homophobic? So what are we arguing about again?

That the cases of actual, violent persecution of gays are far less frequent than the popular image of Russia in the anglophone societies tells us they are, and that Russians are indifferent towards gays as long as they do not act feminine for men or masculine for women or otherwise "unnaturally" in public, which is not a good situation by any means but is nowhere as bad as some sources claim it to be. You can look up Zemfira to see how the Russian populace treats non-"unnatural" homosexuals.

[smeeprocket]

So you agree that Russia by and large is homophobic? So what are we arguing about again?

That the cases of actual, violent persecution of gays are far less frequent than the popular image of Russia in the anglophone societies tells us they are, and that Russians are indifferent towards gays as long as they do not act feminine or otherwise "unnaturally" in public, which is not a good situation by any means but is nowhere as bad as some sources claim it to be. You can look up Zemfira to see how the Russian populace treats non-"unnatural" homosexuals.

Basically as long as you act "Straight" and don't show any sexual interest in anyone of the same gender you are golden.

[Knit tie]

So you agree that Russia by and large is homophobic? So what are we arguing about again?

That the cases of actual, violent persecution of gays are far less frequent than the popular image of Russia in the anglophone societies tells us they are, and that Russians are indifferent towards gays as long as they do not act feminine or otherwise "unnaturally" in public, which is not a good situation by any means but is nowhere as bad as some sources claim it to be. You can look up Zemfira to see how the Russian populace treats non-"unnatural" homosexuals.

Basically as long as you act "Straight" and don't show any sexual interest in anyone of the same gender you are golden.

Add "in public" after "gender" and you are absolutely correct.

[Sheb]

So basically, as long as people cannot tell you're gay you're okay?