Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Dutchling]

So Russia is bad at laws?

Yes

[Knit tie]

So Russia is bad at laws?

Yes

Not really. I wouldn't extrapolate the actions of at most half a dozen man onto the whole of the government.

So some guy in the Russian government made a stupid law by copypasting a list of mental disorders which includes stuff like paranoia and sadomasochism into the list of conditions prohibiting driving and his superiors approved it without reading the text properly, but the media is twisting it to look like a specifically anti-transgender thing?

That's better.

[smeeprocket]

I don't feel like this is a good law regardless. It probably exists to ban trans people, considering Russia's history with these things, but also, being into BDSM or being a transvestite shouldn't get you banned from driving. And apparently, the generally loose interpretations of laws means that gay and bisexual people, whose existence is barely legal, might be forbidden from driving also.

[Sheb]

Well, no one said it was good, we're just arguing whether it was malice or stupidity, with a majority of debater supporting stupidity.

[smeeprocket]

I would argue malice. I think it's obvious that most of this stuff is irrelevant to driving, and making existing harder for people, evne if you think they have some sort of deviant mental illness (which again, has no effect on driving,) is a malicious act.

[Knit tie]

I would argue malice. I think it's obvious that most of this stuff is irrelevant to driving, and making existing harder for people, evne if you think they have some sort of deviant mental illness (which again, has no effect on driving,) is a malicious act.

The law doesn't single out homosexuals or transvestites, it prohibits people with a whole list of mental "problems" as defined by the WHO, which includes things like paranoia and sadomasochism from driving. I'd say that it's a product of stupidity, considering that it makes absolutely no sense and is impossible to enforce to boot.

[smeeprocket]

I would argue malice. I think it's obvious that most of this stuff is irrelevant to driving, and making existing harder for people, evne if you think they have some sort of deviant mental illness (which again, has no effect on driving,) is a malicious act.

The law doesn't single out homosexuals or transvestites, it prohibits people with a whole list of mental "problems" as defined by the WHO, which includes things like paranoia and sadomasochism from driving. I'd say that it's a product of stupidity, considering that it makes absolutely no sense and is impossible to enforce to boot.

is transgender still considered a mental illness by the WHO? Or being a transvestite? How backwards.

[Knit tie]

I would argue malice. I think it's obvious that most of this stuff is irrelevant to driving, and making existing harder for people, evne if you think they have some sort of deviant mental illness (which again, has no effect on driving,) is a malicious act.

The law doesn't single out homosexuals or transvestites, it prohibits people with a whole list of mental "problems" as defined by the WHO, which includes things like paranoia and sadomasochism from driving. I'd say that it's a product of stupidity, considering that it makes absolutely no sense and is impossible to enforce to boot.

is transgender still considered a mental illness by the WHO? Or being a transvestite? How backwards.

Technically, that's a "disorder."

[smeeprocket]

I would argue malice. I think it's obvious that most of this stuff is irrelevant to driving, and making existing harder for people, evne if you think they have some sort of deviant mental illness (which again, has no effect on driving,) is a malicious act.

The law doesn't single out homosexuals or transvestites, it prohibits people with a whole list of mental "problems" as defined by the WHO, which includes things like paranoia and sadomasochism from driving. I'd say that it's a product of stupidity, considering that it makes absolutely no sense and is impossible to enforce to boot.

is transgender still considered a mental illness by the WHO? Or being a transvestite? How backwards.

Technically, that's a "disorder."

I'm not sure what I'm looking for,

There are psychological disorders that can come from the dysphoria and rejection related to being transgender, though it is still classified as a physical disorder itself in the US. Which implies that gender is in some way a binary system, so a lot of rights groups are trying to get that changed.

Or were you talking about transvestism? It seems odd to me that sexual interests can, (though that isn't actually sexual at all,) if consensual and non-harmful be considered disorders. Based on societal norms, anything could be a disorder.

[Sergarr]

oh god no

knit tie plz staph

i don't want to see yet another thread locked

[Knit tie]

I would argue malice. I think it's obvious that most of this stuff is irrelevant to driving, and making existing harder for people, evne if you think they have some sort of deviant mental illness (which again, has no effect on driving,) is a malicious act.

The law doesn't single out homosexuals or transvestites, it prohibits people with a whole list of mental "problems" as defined by the WHO, which includes things like paranoia and sadomasochism from driving. I'd say that it's a product of stupidity, considering that it makes absolutely no sense and is impossible to enforce to boot.

is transgender still considered a mental illness by the WHO? Or being a transvestite? How backwards.

Technically, that's a "disorder."

I'm not sure what I'm looking for,

There are psychological disorders that can come from the dysphoria and rejection related to being transgender, though it is still classified as a physical disorder itself in the US. Which implies that gender is in some way a binary system, so a lot of rights groups are trying to get that changed.

Or were you talking about transvestism? It seems odd to me that sexual interests can, (though that isn't actually sexual at all,) if consensual and non-harmful be considered disorders. Based on societal norms, anything could be a disorder.

Smeeps, that's the list of the mental conditions that will now prevent you from diriving in Russia. As you can see, homosexuals and transvestites are not the only ones to be "wronged" by the Russian bureaucracy, "wronged" in quotation marks because the law is not going to be enforced at all.

[smeeprocket]

I would argue malice. I think it's obvious that most of this stuff is irrelevant to driving, and making existing harder for people, evne if you think they have some sort of deviant mental illness (which again, has no effect on driving,) is a malicious act.

The law doesn't single out homosexuals or transvestites, it prohibits people with a whole list of mental "problems" as defined by the WHO, which includes things like paranoia and sadomasochism from driving. I'd say that it's a product of stupidity, considering that it makes absolutely no sense and is impossible to enforce to boot.

is transgender still considered a mental illness by the WHO? Or being a transvestite? How backwards.

Technically, that's a "disorder."

I'm not sure what I'm looking for,

There are psychological disorders that can come from the dysphoria and rejection related to being transgender, though it is still classified as a physical disorder itself in the US. Which implies that gender is in some way a binary system, so a lot of rights groups are trying to get that changed.

Or were you talking about transvestism? It seems odd to me that sexual interests can, (though that isn't actually sexual at all,) if consensual and non-harmful be considered disorders. Based on societal norms, anything could be a disorder.

Smeeps, that's the list of the mental conditions that will now prevent you from diriving in Russia. As you can see, homosexuals and transvestites are not the only ones to be "wronged" by the Russian bureaucracy, "wronged" in quotation marks because the law is not going to be enforced at all.

I suspect it will be enforced loosely and selectively. It can be used as a tool to oppress homosexuals and transgender individuals if the police so desire. It's unlikely a homosexual would be able to fight against it, for example, even though they aren't on the list.

I keep meaning to watch this but I am not sure I could handle it psychologically.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS6lqY0tTh4

[cerapa]

Smeeps, that's the list of the mental conditions that will now prevent you from diriving in Russia. As you can see, homosexuals and transvestites are not the only ones to be "wronged" by the Russian bureaucracy, "wronged" in quotation marks because the law is not going to be enforced at all.

Laws like these have tendency of being enforced when someone annoys whoever is in charge.

[Knit tie]

As a Russian, I can vouch that this law will be ignored by everybody just like most of the other driving-related laws.

Also, Smeeps, I think you might be a bit overly paranoid when it comes to LGBT oppression.

[Sheb]

But you yourself have repeatedly stated that the Russian public is, by and large, homophobic and transphobic. Is it that hard to imagine the local DMV employee deciding to enforce this law to take a crap on trans people?