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[smjjames]

Ah, so we're having a "let's show off the worse opinions on the conflict" moment?

Yup. I really, really wish that every pro-Russian article was a masterpiece of eloquence and impartiality, but sadly, most of them are just as hysterical and idiotic as the anti-Russian drivel that comes out of Kyiv's and Washington's propaganda bullhorns. So far, I found just two pro-Russian writers who are both predominantly rational and eloquent: Anatoly Karlin and Colonel Cassad. The proble, is, Anatoly Karlin has written some horrible, horrible posts about women in the past and believes in stuff that borders on racism sometimes, such as the genetic nature of IQ, while Colonel Cassad is a self-admitted propagandist for Novorossiya. So yeah.

You forgot London's propoganda bullhorn since you linked the Daily Mail, although the Daily Mail should be treated more as tabloid than actual newspaper. Maybe also include Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, and every other 'Western' capital.

_{Just slightly annoyed at the lumping of every 'western' propoganda whatever into solely Washington's propoganda. Other countries have their own opinions too ya know.}

[Erkki]

Yup. I really, really wish that every pro-Russian article was a masterpiece of eloquence and impartiality, but sadly, most of them are just as hysterical and idiotic as the anti-Russian drivel that comes out of Kyiv's and Washington's propaganda bullhorns. So far, I found just two pro-Russian writers who are both predominantly rational and eloquent: Anatoly Karlin and Colonel Cassad.

--

Or, maybe that small number is because it does happen to be bordering impossible to support Russia's behavior( = to be "pro-Russia") and remain rational. Just because you've taken a side (for naive, patriotic reasons, but thats only IMHO) doesn't mean you're right or that the actions of your nation should be defended, even if they are "rational" and make sense.

That said, hysteria sells. One saw the other week was an article on Russia's new navy ships, where they(2 frigates) were told to be state of the art and their missiles threat to any navy in the world. Hysterical article in a paper that most definitely isnt pro-Russian, but managed to spread propaganda any way. That article didn't bother with facts such as Russia's navy still being fairly small in the world scale and how USA's Navy is almost larger than every navy in the world combined, and most of the other major navies being either in NATO or otherwise USA's allies, so whatever effect any 2 new ships Russia commissions have no to little effect to the worlds naval might balance. Just "Russia has this and that, threat, panic!!!"

[Sheb]

(for naive, patriotic reasons, but thats only IMHO)

Knit Tie pretty much admitted himself he only support Russia because it's his country.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Why were they trying to demolition that building? Though NOW they have no choice but to demolition it.

Official reason is that the building is unsafe and prone to fall. Because Ukrainian safety regulations are shit.

Probable real reason: someone wants to build something else on that spot and make money.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Kinda figured the CBR decided to spend all their cash to prop up the ruble. This will last about two weeks then right back to 80. If they spend much more of those reserves then gold is the only part left.

[Sergarr]

Why were they trying to demolition that building? Though NOW they have no choice but to demolition it.

Official reason is that the building is unsafe and prone to fall. Because Ukrainian safety regulations are shit.

Probable real reason: someone wants to build something else on that spot and make money.

How would anyone make money in a internationally blockaded semi-island???

[FearfulJesuit]

Kinda figured the CBR decided to spend all their cash to prop up the ruble. This will last about two weeks then right back to 80. If they spend much more of those reserves then gold is the only part left.

Russia still has nearly $400 billion in foreign reserves left. If you spend $15 billion a week defending the rule, that holds out for the better part of a year.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

No. Not when the reserves are the main reason for their credit rating not being junk, and 220 billion of that reserve being hard gold reserves. There's not enough liquidity to keep spending that much.

[Knit tie]

(for naive, patriotic reasons, but thats only IMHO)

Knit Tie pretty much admitted himself he only support Russia because it's his country.

And for other reasons as well, most prominently the criminal conduct of the ATO by the Ukrainian forces and Kyiv's promotion of many prominent right ultraradicals and outright Neo-Nazis into positions of power within the government and a very totalitarian way of ruling in general, especially in regards to the media. I also equate the annexation of Crimea with the Euromaidan when it comes to the general morality - both events broke the international law, both represented the desires of and were overwhelmingly supported and hailed by the local people nevertheless - and would like to state that the ATO has only brought devastation and death to the separatist regions of the Ukraine, the Novorossiya, while the mainland loyalist Ukraine remains safe, and thus the amount of suffering that the rest of Ukraine has brought upon the rebels and the amount of suffering that the rebels have brought upon the rest of Ukraine are in no way equal.

I may disagree with your opinion, but that does not mean that I am any less rational than you are.

@Erkki: I would like to point out again that the proportion of reasonable articles written pro-Russia approximately equals that of reasonable articles written anti-Russia - both sides churn out shameless propaganda in absurd quantities, although Russia is losing the propaganda war badly due it its PR department being overall inferior to that of the Washington (sorry, smjjames, you are right, I will use the term "Washington" instead of "west" from now on). I also would like to point out that just because you have picked a side that you believe to be right, it does not necessarily mean that your side is objectively right either, i.e. everything you said about me applies to you in equal measure.

Kinda figured the CBR decided to spend all their cash to prop up the ruble. This will last about two weeks then right back to 80. If they spend much more of those reserves then gold is the only part left.

Russia's antidepreciation measures do not amount solely to spending rubles, I linked a post about that some time before. And FearfulJesuit is right - Russia has massive foreign reserves, especially when you consider that it also has a very small debt and a budget surplus.

[Erkki]

@Erkki: I would like to point out again that the proportion of reasonable articles written pro-Russia approximately equals that of reasonable articles written anti-Russia - both sides churn out shameless propaganda in absurd quantities, although Russia is losing the propaganda war badly due it its PR department being overall inferior to that of the Washington (sorry, smjjames, you are right, I will use the term "Washington" instead of "west" from now on). I also would like to point out that just because you have picked a side that you believe to be right, it does not necessarily mean that your side is objectively right, i.e. everything you said about me applies to you in equal measure.

No it doesnt, you should put super heavy emphasis on that "not necessarily" unless you make truth and untruth, good and bad subjective depending on what is to one's advantage or disadvantage(of an entity, person or nation and so forth).

You also seem to think that being against Russia's actions somehow includes being pro-Kiev. It doesn't(hint hint, what is my point of view? Have I picked a side?). Another thing is that many pro-Russians, as they define themselves, can't seem to be able to make difference between being pro-Russia and supporting whatever Russia does, which can again be disconnected. I don't think that a true patriot would prefer to see Russia warmonger and become isolated once again(but then again me and many of them may not share even remotely the same values). Maybe you are not in a risk of having the privilege of getting to personally participate in expanding Russia and protecting her interests abroad wearing all-greens.

It just happens to be that Russia has had all the keys to ending the conflict, that does happen within Ukraine, for soon a year now, yet keeps going. How many dead and homeless was it again? Do you think their existence, Russian, Ukraine or just people because who cares about the nationality, is also subjective?

[Knit tie]

@Erkki: I would like to point out again that the proportion of reasonable articles written pro-Russia approximately equals that of reasonable articles written anti-Russia - both sides churn out shameless propaganda in absurd quantities, although Russia is losing the propaganda war badly due it its PR department being overall inferior to that of the Washington (sorry, smjjames, you are right, I will use the term "Washington" instead of "west" from now on). I also would like to point out that just because you have picked a side that you believe to be right, it does not necessarily mean that your side is objectively right, i.e. everything you said about me applies to you in equal measure.

No it doesnt, you should put super heavy emphasis on that "not necessarily" unless you make truth and untruth, good and bad subjective depending on what is to one's advantage or disadvantage(of an entity, person or nation and so forth).

You also seem to think that being against Russia's actions somehow includes being pro-Kiev. It doesn't(hint hint, what is my point of view? Have I picked a side?). Another thing is that many pro-Russians, as they define themselves, can't seem to be able to make difference between being pro-Russia and supporting whatever Russia does, which can again be disconnected. I don't think that a true patriot would prefer to see Russia warmonger and become isolated once again(but then again me and many of them may not share even remotely the same values). Maybe you are not in a risk of having the privilege of getting to personally participate in expanding Russia and protecting her interests abroad wearing all-greens.

It just happens to be that Russia has had all the keys to ending the conflict, that does happen within Ukraine, for soon a year now, yet keeps going. How many dead and homeless was it again? Do you think their existence, Russian, Ukraine or just people because who cares about the nationality, is also subjective?

If you are arguing that it would have been better if Russia were to ignore the recent events in Ukraine, then I support you - it really would, for Russia and Ukraine at the very least. I also agree that you don't have to be pro-Kyiv in order to be against Russia, but at the same time I think that if you were to assume a role of an impartial observer and condemn Russia for its criminal activities and breaches of international law, you should also condemn Kyiv for its criminal activities and breaches of international law, not the least of which was the unconstitutional overthrow of Yanukovich by the Euromaidan. You should also condemn USA for openly and vocally supporting Kyiv and all its criminal activities and breaches of international law. If everything I just said is indeed your position, then rest assured that I support it.

Besides, truth is notoriously hard to find, most of the time we merely think that we know it, while in reality we remain ignorant and irrational.

Also, I would be up for draft should Russia enter a war, so I really am in "a risk of having the privilege of getting to personally participate in expanding Russia and protecting her interests abroad wearing all-greens."

[10ebbor10]

Kinda figured the CBR decided to spend all their cash to prop up the ruble. This will last about two weeks then right back to 80. If they spend much more of those reserves then gold is the only part left.

Russia's antidepreciation measures do not amount solely to spending rubles, I linked a post about that some time before. And FearfulJesuit is right - Russia has massive foreign reserves, especially when you consider that it also has a very small debt and a budget surplus.

Russia still has a budget surplus?

Figured that would be gone with the oil price collapsing.

[Erkki]

@Erkki: I would like to point out again that the proportion of reasonable articles written pro-Russia approximately equals that of reasonable articles written anti-Russia - both sides churn out shameless propaganda in absurd quantities, although Russia is losing the propaganda war badly due it its PR department being overall inferior to that of the Washington (sorry, smjjames, you are right, I will use the term "Washington" instead of "west" from now on). I also would like to point out that just because you have picked a side that you believe to be right, it does not necessarily mean that your side is objectively right, i.e. everything you said about me applies to you in equal measure.

No it doesnt, you should put super heavy emphasis on that "not necessarily" unless you make truth and untruth, good and bad subjective depending on what is to one's advantage or disadvantage(of an entity, person or nation and so forth).

You also seem to think that being against Russia's actions somehow includes being pro-Kiev. It doesn't(hint hint, what is my point of view? Have I picked a side?). Another thing is that many pro-Russians, as they define themselves, can't seem to be able to make difference between being pro-Russia and supporting whatever Russia does, which can again be disconnected. I don't think that a true patriot would prefer to see Russia warmonger and become isolated once again(but then again me and many of them may not share even remotely the same values). Maybe you are not in a risk of having the privilege of getting to personally participate in expanding Russia and protecting her interests abroad wearing all-greens.

It just happens to be that Russia has had all the keys to ending the conflict, that does happen within Ukraine, for soon a year now, yet keeps going. How many dead and homeless was it again? Do you think their existence, Russian, Ukraine or just people because who cares about the nationality, is also subjective?

If you are arguing that it would have been better if Russia were to ignore the recent events in Ukraine, then I support you - it really would, for Russia and Ukraine at the very least. I also agree that you don't have to be pro-Kyiv in order to be against Russia, but at the same time I think that if you were to assume a role of an impartial observer and condemn Russia for its criminal activities and breaches of international law, you should also condemn Kyiv for its criminal activities and breaches of international law, not the least of which was the unconstitutional overthrow of Yanukovich by the Euromaidan. You should also condemn USA for openly and vocally supporting Kyiv and all its criminal activities and breaches of international law. If everything I just said is truly yours position, then rest assured that I support it.

Yes, of course. Especially USA's will to so quickly support Ukraine with advisors and non-lethal equipment. A better response may have been moving a couple of armored regiments or something to, say, Germany and Hungary(so that they wouldn't be in countries that directly border Russia) or even open NATO membership invitations to the already compatible partnership countries that border Russia(even if none cold in practice join in quick schedule). Also, well, heres a sample of Ukrainian democracy for you all:



But what I got to give them is that the majority of Ukrainians want to get rid of the corruption. It just isn't that easy with where they started at when going through several major crises, and maybe there isn't quite enough of that will either. Any way, Russia shouldnt "worry" about Ukraine making into EU or NATO any time soon, as neither wants Ukraine and in both organizations a single no vote from any member is enough to shoot down those dreams even if Ukraine did meet the criteria.

But besides shelling civilians and potentially abusing/killing PoWs(even if there technically arent PoWs in a civil war) in a war fueled by Russia, what breaches of international law? I'm not convinced that there are any, and Ukraine's legal(or more or less legal, if you mind) leadership may not be responsible for many of the known crimes committed by certain voluntary and other military or paramilitary units either. Hopefully we will see people from both sides in Hague once things settle down.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Kinda figured the CBR decided to spend all their cash to prop up the ruble. This will last about two weeks then right back to 80. If they spend much more of those reserves then gold is the only part left.

Russia's antidepreciation measures do not amount solely to spending rubles, I linked a post about that some time before. And FearfulJesuit is right - Russia has massive foreign reserves, especially when you consider that it also has a very small debt and a budget surplus.

Russia still has a budget surplus?

Figured that would be gone with the oil price collapsing.

Data released by the central bank on Friday showed that the government’s overall stockpile of foreign currency reserves had fallen by nearly $16 billion to $398.9 billion. Overall, the Russian government has approved 1 trillion rubles, or about $20 billion, to rescue the banking system.

Speaking to journalists on Friday, the Russian finance minister, Anton Siluanov, said that the rescue measures would swing the 2014 federal budget into a deficit of about $10 billion or roughly 0.7 percent of the nation’s annual economic output.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/12/26/scaled-up-banking-rescue-to-push-russian-budget-into-deficit/?_r=0

They don't show this on State sponsored tv, most likely.

[Sergarr]

It just happens to be that Russia has had all the keys to ending the conflict, that does happen within Ukraine, for soon a year now, yet keeps going. How many dead and homeless was it again? Do you think their existence, Russian, Ukraine or just people because who cares about the nationality, is also subjective?

If Russia stopped supporting the rebels in Donbass, the Ukraine army will turn to Crimea.

Speaking of Crimea, I'm now increasingly more sure with every passing moment that either 1) taking it wasn't thought out at all, long term wise, or 2) the government was expecting something different to happen in Eastern Ukraine from what really happened there.

Most likely, they expected a huge mass uprising there, and when they didn't get it, they sent in the guy (Strelkov) to try to rally people for that. However, I'm pretty sure it backfired. His plan of "sitting like a duck in two cities and wait for Russia to help" was what really doomed the whole operation, since he surrendered the initiative to his enemy. History shows that this move never ends in victory. Never.

Strelkov and the ones who gave him orders are who we should blame for this mess. As he himself admitted, without him there wouldn't be a large-scale war we see now.