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[Sergarr]

EDIT: Our winter is currently very mild. Positive temperature, and no colds in sight.

Ours too. You guys are fucked either way.

All for the sake of Western wet dream regime change.

Name one person clamoring for regime change in Russia. It's a general consensus that while Putin may be bad, he currently is the best realistic option.

Your 'fuck the world powers' attitude appears to rather be a 'fuck that strawman of America' one. Be careful, straw is pretty hard - I for one would not like to ram my junk into the stuff.

Hodorkovskiy has said multiple times that he would not refuse to be a President of Russia.

He also said that he would rule for 2-3 years in a "intermediate" government, before elections.

There may be no outside forces that want regime change, but there sure as fuck many inside forces who want regime change.

[Sheb]

He was specifically responding to "Western wet dream of regime change".

[Sergarr]

There are two Wests: The real west and people who claim to be "West" inside Russia.

The second one is the one that usually gets the most hate from pro-Russian people.

[Helgoland]

He was specifically responding to "Western wet dream of regime change".

This. Also "I'd be willing to take power for a while" is not exactly "We need to wage economic warfare on Russia, killing thousands, just to get Putin removed by a violent revolution."

[Culise]

There are two Wests: The real west and people who claim to be "West" inside Russia.

The second one is the one that usually gets the most hate from pro-Russian people.

Last time I checked, though, Helgo isn't inside Russia.  The sanctions against Gazprom and Putin that Zangi was railing against weren't implemented by people inside Russia.  Washington D.C. isn't inside Russia (yet).  I think the use of "West" in this context was rather unmistakable. 

[Fniff]

There are two Wests: The real west and people who claim to be "West" inside Russia.

The second one is the one that usually gets the most hate from pro-Russian people.

What's the most annoying/bizarre view of Russia that you hear from the West? I empathize with people having a really skewed view of your country since I'm from Ireland; the land of Guinness, Leprechauns, and car bombings according to those who don't pay attention.

[Sergarr]

There are two Wests: The real west and people who claim to be "West" inside Russia.

The second one is the one that usually gets the most hate from pro-Russian people.

What's the most annoying/bizarre view of Russia that you hear from the West? I empathize with people having a really skewed view of your country since I'm from Ireland; the land of Guinness, Leprechauns, and car bombings according to those who don't pay attention.

The entire Russia is a gas station for the West/Europe.

That has got to be one of the most annoying and persistent messages I've seen in both Russian and English variants.

EDIT: Because of the recent ruble events, Russians are now buying more... fridges and TV sets.

EDIT2: Russian foreign minister announced that Russia no longer demand federalization of Ukraine.
This is equivalent to complete and utter surrender.

[Descan]

Erm... I think complete and utter surrender would be saying "We will no longer support the DNR [seperatists] and [admit to any wrong-doings]."

This? It's just negotiations. A pretty big one, but not more than a negotiation. "We'll give you something, because *we're such good people*, yes?"

[Sergarr]

Seeing as he said that "Russia supports the territorial integrity of Ukraine", and "Donbass won't be a second Crimea", it essentially is.

I won't be surprised to see Donbass in Ukraine again in a week.

[Descan]

Well, no, sorry, I mis-spoke. Complete and utter surrender would be something along the lines of giving Crimea back. Whether by fiat or saying "We'll allow internationally-administered elections and a referendum in Crimea." Of those two, the latter would be preferred, because for all we know, the Crimeans DO want to be in Russia? So give them the actual choice and not the heightened-feelings-after-a-Kiev-revolution-and-at-the-end-of-a-gun-barrel choice they got before. :V Or at least, a choice that no one can SAY they were at the end of a gun barrel during, eh?

I could go further and say "And Putin is stepping down and we'll all fart sunshine and puppies for the West's puppy-based sunshine economy," but that's just moving the goal-posts even further. I'd say putting things back to the way they were before the Russian intervention would constitute "complete and utter surrender."

[MDFification]

Arguably, Russia never supported the separatists; they openly were saying they wouldn't annex it under any circumstances months ago. It was a successful diversion though; since everyone focused on the Donbass they effectively gave up on Crimea.

[Sergarr]

They didn't actually. The Western elites have said many times that the sanctions won't get elevated until the Crimea question gets solved.

But this didn't stop our gov from naively hoping that they can simply "return everything to status-quo + Crimea".

They should've either not done anything in Ukraine, or they should have gone for full intervention route, reinstating Yanuk in power.

But our gov has chosen the WORST POSSIBLE ROUTE. As a result, we have full brunt of sanctions AND an enemy state on our doors.

Great job, Putin!

[Sheb]

Complete and total surrender would be "Oh, and here is Crimea, and there is free money to rebuild the Donbass".

[Sergarr]

They did give 30 billion USD to Ukraine in a "Donbass Restoration Fund" recently...

The question of Crimea will get solved before the end of the next year, if this current trend continues.

[alway]

What they should have done is intervened privately before Yanuk was thrown out. Before he started using force against protesters. They should have told him his reign was over, have him resign while engineering a media blitz complaining loudly about how democracy was subverted by a minority coup. If the opposition won in the ensuing elections, so be it. But the entire event would likely ensure the status quo was maintained by smearing them with accusations of a coup, making the nation as a whole either stay the way it was politically, or even lean more towards Russia after seeing the tactics used by the pro-EU crowd.

Military force of any kind would have been off the table, Ukrainians would have seen Russia in a more favorable light; and even the US and EU would see Russia in a more favorable light if word of the deal were leaked well after the fact. That's the most effective way to handle issues like this: by playing the long game. That something like this didn't occur is why the current moves smell of desperation. They moved way too late, waiting for a full-blown Ukraine Situation instead of nipping it in the bud at a small, short-term cost.