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[Knit tie]

Also, and I don't really want to pull another Godwin here, but if you say it like that, people being distrustful of democracy after bad experiences and hoping a strong leader might fix everything, boy, does that remind me of something.

All those countries that aren't liberal democracies, but that also didn't turn into another Nazi Germany either?

[Sergarr]

Russians do not actually want strong leaders, at large. They just want to be free from both government's and the oligarch's influences on their lives, and still keep the ability to freely move across the country.

That's the real reason why most people didn't like the dissolution of USSR. Artificial borders propping up, making travel more difficult.

Russians really love their freedom of movement; after all, what Russian doesn't like the fast ride?

[Helgoland]

Also, and I don't really want to pull another Godwin here, but if you say it like that, people being distrustful of democracy after bad experiences and hoping a strong leader might fix everything, boy, does that remind me of something.

All those countries that aren't liberal democracies, but that also didn't turn into another Nazi Germany either?

There are only very few of those where the people actually clamor for a strong leader. And even fewer ones with a bruised national ego, a huge economic downturn in the recent past, and an economic restauration by said strongman...

[Knit tie]

Also, and I don't really want to pull another Godwin here, but if you say it like that, people being distrustful of democracy after bad experiences and hoping a strong leader might fix everything, boy, does that remind me of something.

All those countries that aren't liberal democracies, but that also didn't turn into another Nazi Germany either?

There are only very few of those where the people actually clamor for a strong leader. And even fewer ones with a bruised national ego, a huge economic downturn in the recent past, and an economic restauration by said strongman...

And Russia's not one of those countries, let me tell you. The main reason why Putin's so popular is because we really don't have any alternatives - all other potential presidents are at best clowns. If somebody else would appear that could take Putin's place and continue his successful economic policy while also getting rid of oligarchs and establishing a proper rule of law, that person would replace Putin in a year at most. But there is no such hero to be found. As for our "ego", only 18% of Russia's population support an official intervention into the Ukrainian civil war, and certainly nobody wants to invade Estonia or any other countries, as communistophobes would have you believe. The USSR is dead and buried, slain by internal rot, and even the wildest fanatics do not toy with the idea of its resurrection.

[XXSockXX]

Also, and I don't really want to pull another Godwin here, but if you say it like that, people being distrustful of democracy after bad experiences and hoping a strong leader might fix everything, boy, does that remind me of something.

All those countries that aren't liberal democracies, but that also didn't turn into another Nazi Germany either?

No, I meant pre-Nazi Germany indeed. I said I didn't really want to pull a Godwin, but I totally did.   

Seriously though, I wanted to point out that it shouldn't surprise anyone that developments in Russia are seen with a lot of scepticism. The Hitler/Putin comparisons are ridiculously over the top and flat out wrong, but it's not like there is nothing that could look like a worrying parallel.

That's the real reason why most people didn't like the dissolution of USSR. Artificial borders propping up, making travel more difficult.

But you don't need another USSR-ish structure for that, just get your own Eurasian version of the Schengen treaty (or maybe even work towards joining ours someday) and you're all set.

[Owlbread]

There's a problem here that Westerners don't really get.

Russians don't want democracy. They don't want to be European. They don't like corruption, and they don't really like political oppression, I gather, but they're very clear that they aren't Western.

Free and fair elections in Russia will end up with another Putin installed, at least in the current ideological climate.

If I was talking about something Russians actually wanted it would already be here. I'm not talking about what Russians want - I'm talking about what I want and what I think is best.

[Knit tie]

-snip-

I honestly think you Germans are needlessly paranoid about this whole "new Nazi Germany" stuff.

[XXSockXX]

-snip-

I honestly think you Germans are needlessly paranoid about this whole "new Nazi Germany" stuff.

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean Russia isn't out to get me. 

[Sergarr]

Calling the current economical situation in Russia "economical restoration" is a huge exaggeration.

He merely halted the fastest processes of destruction, but he did not reversed it at large, since he did not eliminate the source of it: the oligarchs who do not care about anything except their own personal wealth. Current Russian economy is also largely based around exporting raw materials, which is Bad™, but as long as some people profit from it, they're not going to let go of that cash cow.

Really, Putin's only popular since we don't have any reasonable alternative which would be 1) not oligarchs 2) not batshit-crazy.

People's in Russia are largely disappointed in politicians. The real way to introduce a change into Russian society would be through working out some economy which would not require the presence of a large bureaucracy or government at all. Sadly the current globalization of economy really works against that. You'd need some sort of ordinary miracle for that to happen.

[smjjames]

-snip-

I honestly think you Germans are needlessly paranoid about this whole "new Nazi Germany" stuff.

It's pretty understandable though.

[Knit tie]

-snip-

I honestly think you Germans are needlessly paranoid about this whole "new Nazi Germany" stuff.

It's pretty understandable though.

Well I'm not blaming them for it.

[mainiac]

As for our "ego", only 18% of Russia's population support an official intervention into the Ukrainian civil war, and certainly nobody wants to invade Estonia or any other countries, as communistophobes would have you believe. The USSR is dead and buried, slain by internal rot, and even the wildest fanatics do not toy with the idea of its resurrection.

So the population doesn't want to be in Ukraine but Russia is in Ukraine.  And you expect us to be comforted by the fact that the population doesn't want to be in Estonia/whatever else?

Is it really so hard to believe that maybe everyone isn't simultaneously lying when they say that it's the actions of the Russian government they are worried about?  Maybe drop the persecution complex for two seconds and consider that other people form views you dislike for a reason instead of just assuming that they are all bigots?  I mean you dont explain Russia's actions by saying that Russian's are prejudiced although that shoe fits a hell of a lot better.

[Sergarr]

That's a theory that sounds depressingly true to the facts.

I guess I'm not going to vote for the Putin's party in any foreseeable future.

[alway]

Really, Putin's only popular since we don't have any reasonable alternative which would be 1) not oligarchs 2) not batshit-crazy.

And I think therein lies the problem most foreigners see: there is no viable, antagonistic opposition. While I certainly wouldn't say the US government is a shining beacon of efficiency, the highly antagonistic party politics ensure that if any major change takes place, either everyone agrees on it or it will grind on for so long that everyone saw it coming and had been discussing it for years.

From that starting point, it all comes down to a thought experiment: What would happen if some person in the government was replaced with a body-double with the brain of Hitler?

For Obama-Hitler, he would end up politically hamstrung; and wouldn't be much more or much less able to get his agenda through the legislature than he is now. Likewise, the army would be pretty much off limits. However, he would be able to use executive agencies like the CIA, NSA, and such to carry out his agenda. Their power is limited by oversight; but it is oversight which is historically ineffectual and blind to most goings-on. Alternatively, if the head of one of those agencies with little oversight was replaced with a *-Hitler, they could potentially orchestrate enough sneaky stuff to at least have some considerable manipulative power in the political system. This is the main reason Americans fear the expanding powers of groups like the NSA: a lack of an antagonistic system of governance.

If it were Putin-Hitler, or whomever-is-designated-his-replacement-after-Putin-eventually-retires-Hitler, he would currently have a much easier time of it than Obama-Hitler. Without reasonable, antagonistic alternatives, Russia is setting itself up for a fall, or worse. That is largely why the internal situation of Russia makes those outside nervous, especially when approval ratings are so high that a unified opposition couldn't arise.

[smjjames]

That's a theory that sounds depressingly true to the facts.

I guess I'm not going to vote for the Putin's party in any foreseeable future.

The hell google translate? It thinks the page is already in english Something is screwy with google translate and that page.

Edit: I think that might be in serbian, not russian, google translate is still not cooperating.

@alway: I'm not even sure what you mean by antagonistic opposition? You mean like the Democrats and Republicans?