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[Knit tie]

Knit tie, Ukraine is in the midst of a war. No one thing they're going to do well.

Frankly, if you're thinking "Things are not so bad, there could be a war.", you suffer from a serious case of low expectations.

Yes, I really shouldn't take joy in others' misery. Sorry.

[Sheb]

It's not even that, it's that we don't expect Ukraine to do well, they're being invaded. Yeah, they're going to shit. No one is arguing the contrary, so it makes for a boring discussion.

[Knit tie]

It's not even that, it's that we don't expect Ukraine to do well, they're being invaded. Yeah, they're going to shit. No one is arguing the contrary, so it makes for a boring discussion.

I would argue that it's less of an "invasion" in the sense of enemy advancing through the Ukrainian lands and more of a chunk of their territory trying to secede: the war has been, and still is, localised to Donbass, which remains the only area of Ukraine that has suffered any destruction due to war.

[Sheb]

Are you still denying there are Russian soldiers fighting the war there?

[Knit tie]

Are you still denying there are Russian soldiers fighting the war there?

No, but I insist that we apply the same standards to Russia that we apply to the Western powers and call it an intervention. Russian support of rebels, which are the warring pro-russian faction and the one that keeps the conflict going, does not a civil war into invasion make. During the Russian civil war, there were american soldiers and other allied forces on Russian soil, yet nobody calls it "Allied invasion of Russia." If we were to call every foreign intervention in order to help allies in a civil war "invasion", we might as well call the American involvement in Ukraine an "invasion". Or what about Libyan intervention? If I recall correctly, foreign airplanes were bombing the enemies of the Libyan rebels, why isn't that incident called "Allied invasion of Libya"?

"Invasion" is a deliberately erroneous term used by the western press as part of their anti-Russian propaganda campaign. Not that I think that calling invasions "interventions" is much better, mind you, but let's at least use the same sauce for the goose and the gander.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

When you attack a nation with your military and annex its land, that's typically referred to as an invasion

Ruble currently experiencing the worst drop since 1998.

[Sergarr]

There are plenty of locals in the rebel's forces. Can't say that there are only Russians there.

[Knit tie]

This whole thing is ridiculously convoluted.

My point exactly, it's not as clear-cut and "good vs. bad" as many people think.

[Sheb]

Oh, no, it's grey vs. black. And yeah, you can argue semantically if it's an invasion or not, the fact remains that Russia is the cause of this, and the reason it goes on.

So yeah, good job, the country wrecked by war has an even worse economy that yours. Are you happy with this?

[DJ]

I think a fairly close scenario in WW2 was Croatia. The domestic ustashi regime was installed to govern, and domestic forces were the bulk of the military there (until shit started to hit the fan), but I'd still say that Kingdom of Yugoslavia was invaded by Germany. And no, this is not at all about the ideology, just about similar circumstances, so let's not go down a Gowin tangent please.

[LordSlowpoke]

let's not go down a Gowin tangent

Spoiler: why wouldn't you want that (click to show/hide)

just look at him

mad props to the poles who taught me of him being a thing even though he's as vanilla as politicians get

[Descan]

Better than a Gowron tangent.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Knit tie]

Oh, no, it's grey vs. black. And yeah, you can argue semantically if it's an invasion or not, the fact remains that Russia is the cause of this, and the reason it goes on.

You are saying this like Russia's decided to just annex Crimea out of the blue, with no political power games involved.

So yeah, good job, the country wrecked by war has an even worse economy that yours. Are you happy with this?

No, I'm not. I am not that callous.

 I was just trying to get some schadenfreude from Ukraine being in a bad state, in the same way Mictlan and UR have been getting it from rouble devaluation. It was an unsightly and morally wrong thing for me to do, I know.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

You are saying this like Russia's decided to just annex Crimea

It is exactly what happened. Empire noticed a moment of weakness in neighboring country and attacked

[Sergarr]

Replace "attacked" with "reclaimed it's rightful territory" and we're good.