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[Fniff]

You know, reading about Pussy Riot, it seems their activities with Viona resemble the Liberal Crime Squad. Throwing live cats at McDonald's employees really sounds like something that should be in LCS.

[Sergarr]

I'm not very appreciative of the Pussy Riot, because what they did is equivalent of shitting on the Statue of Liberty while singing about how all Christians are retarded, for USA.

[Helgoland]

True, but they are not usually appointed as a part of a malicious plot either. Nepotism and cronyism run amok in the Russian ministries, and it's fully possible that she was appointed because of her political views or because she is someone's (distant) relative.

If it was an isolated incident I would agree, but as there are many more such occurrences that seems unlikely. It's still possible, of course, and there's no proof either way - all we can do is look at plausibility.

Putin's government, for all its faults, has not been known to engage in political repressions. The majority of the oligarchs he incarcerated were jailed for actual crimes and Pussy Riot is a case of western media latching onto an otherwise unremarkable case.

I agree with you on Pussy Riot - they'd been convicted here as well -, but the Khodorkovsky trial was political - his crimes were real, sure, but he was persecuted for political reasons: Others who committed the same or similar crimes but stayed in line were not bothered at all. Equality before the law is a necessary condition for justice!
Also Russia has one of the highest rates of murdered journalists, and those who get murdered tend not to be the ones paid by the Kremlin...

Ninja: What mainiac and Mict said, basically.

[smjjames]

I'm not very appreciative of the Pussy Riot, because what they did is equivalent of shitting on the Statue of Liberty while singing about how all Christians are retarded, for USA.

Even then, we wouldn't put them in jail just because they blasted Obama. Or for shitting on the statue of liberty.

Well, if they literally actually did shit on the statue of liberty, we would.

[Sergarr]

I'm not very appreciative of the Pussy Riot, because what they did is equivalent of shitting on the Statue of Liberty while singing about how all Christians are retarded, for USA.

Even then, we wouldn't put them in jail just because they blasted Obama.

* Sergarr facepalms

Way to miss the fucking point.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Yes, we know it's possible to go to jail in Russia for offending certain people in power. Thanks for making that clear.

[Helgoland]

Yes, we know it's possible to go to jail in Russia for offending certain people in power. Thanks for making that clear.

You Americans go a bit nuts sometimes with freedom of speech, you know? In Germany you can go to jail for denying the Holocaust - that's not 'offending people in power', that's a huge slap in the face for every decent person there is. In America it's fine and dandy, though.
These things work differently in Europe is all I'm saying.

[smjjames]

Theres a difference between making a rather rude joke about 'the people in power' and denying the holocaust.

[Sergarr]

Theres a difference between making a rather rude joke about 'the people in power' and denying the holocaust.

You missed the part where they did an absolutely inappropriate thing in a church. Also the "song"'s last section was an obscene parody of the Christian liturgical hymn the Sanctus, substituting the word “shit” for the word “holy”

This is not a joke about "people in power", it was a spit into the face of every single Russian.

[smjjames]

Theres a difference between making a rather rude joke about 'the people in power' and denying the holocaust.

You missed the part where they did an absolutely inappropriate thing in a church. Also the "song"'s last section was an obscene parody of the Christian liturgical hymn the Sanctus, substituting the word “shit” for the word “holy”

This is not a joke about "people in power", it was a spit into the face of every single Russian.

Why did the church allow them to perform there then? Unless it was a sneak move.

Here in the US, the church could at least sue them for libel or something.

[Sergarr]

Theres a difference between making a rather rude joke about 'the people in power' and denying the holocaust.

You missed the part where they did an absolutely inappropriate thing in a church. Also the "song"'s last section was an obscene parody of the Christian liturgical hymn the Sanctus, substituting the word “shit” for the word “holy”

This is not a joke about "people in power", it was a spit into the face of every single Russian.

Why did the church allow them to perform there then? Unless it was a sneak move.

It was a sneak move.

How can you think it wasn't a sneak move when they were balaclavas concealing their faces?

[smjjames]

Theres a difference between making a rather rude joke about 'the people in power' and denying the holocaust.

You missed the part where they did an absolutely inappropriate thing in a church. Also the "song"'s last section was an obscene parody of the Christian liturgical hymn the Sanctus, substituting the word “shit” for the word “holy”

This is not a joke about "people in power", it was a spit into the face of every single Russian.

Why did the church allow them to perform there then? Unless it was a sneak move.

It was a sneak move.

How can you think it wasn't a sneak move when they were balaclavas concealing their faces?

I meant whether the church actually gave them the okay to perform on the premises. I know it's obvious that they definetly wouldn't, but I'm not clear on whether they actually did or not.

I don't know the whole specifics of it like whether they did it by surprise by doing it when nobody was in the church.

[Knit tie]

True, but they are not usually appointed as a part of a malicious plot either. Nepotism and cronyism run amok in the Russian ministries, and it's fully possible that she was appointed because of her political views or because she is someone's (distant) relative.

If it was an isolated incident I would agree, but as there are many more such occurrences that seems unlikely. It's still possible, of course, and there's no proof either way - all we can do is look at plausibility.

Putin's government, for all its faults, has not been known to engage in political repressions. The majority of the oligarchs he incarcerated were jailed for actual crimes and Pussy Riot is a case of western media latching onto an otherwise unremarkable case.

I agree with you on Pussy Riot - they'd been convicted here as well -, but the Khodorkovsky trial was political - his crimes were real, sure, but he was persecuted for political reasons: Others who committed the same or similar crimes but stayed in line were not bothered at all. Equality before the law is a necessary condition for justice!
Also Russia has one of the highest rates of murdered journalists, and those who get murdered tend not to be the ones paid by the Kremlin...

Ninja: What mainiac and Mict said, basically.

Вот тебе алаверды, my Germanic friend!

Yes, we know it's possible to go to jail in Russia for offending certain people in power. Thanks for making that clear.

The case with the Pussy Riot is that, as the link I provided explains, they are not a group of intrepid liberal opposition fighters, but rather a gang of hooligans who have frequently, repeatedly and grossly violated the public order.

[mainiac]

So...?  The point of Free Speech is that you don't judge them.  If you only give free speech to legitimate opposition you've sort of missed the boat.

[LordSlowpoke]

The point of Free Speech is that you don't judge them.

excuse me, princess

free speech = being able to say things = expressing beliefs and ideas without unwarranted government restriction

the consequences of saying things however are part of the freedom of being able to say it