Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[nenjin]

It's called WYSIWYG, or What You See Is What You Get. It originally started as a tournament guideline so people couldn't walk into official GWS tourneys with garbage and win the fairly expensive prizes.

But as the corruption spread through GWS, they made it the standing rule at all their stores, so that anyone playing there was spending money. GWS employees are some of the most aggressive employees I've ever seen in retail.

Not that it matters anymore, GWS can't afford to have standalone shops for their products anymore, anywhere except the UK.

Ahh a good bit of background - definitely puts it into perspective. It's a shame that it spread to the store games though - I think they'd have kept a lot more business if they'd have been a bit more relaxed about stuff.

I'm really hoping they don't fizzle completely though - I imagine GW will drag all the IP down with them and it'll mean that they'll just be no GW stuff (games/books) instead of the mediocre stuff we have now.

The hobby market is notoriously risky. GWS has done as well as they have because they essentially have a captive audience. There is no "replacement good" for 40k. Sure, you can play War Machine or w/e, but people don't play 40k just for the table top experience.

That and GWS has been decently propped up by the video game market in the last few years. But I suspect their attention to the franchise is starting to slip, or loosen in unpleasant ways, because they're greenlighting shit like Storm of Vengeance, which no real 40k fan in their right mind would want to play.

[MrWiggles]

Well, it's not so much that table top hobby is a risky business. It's more to do that it lacks business men.

GWS though for the last 5 years or so, have like super crippled their retail stores abroad. And stopped first market online sales. They even super restricted how much retailers can order. That's beyond the old, 'don't sell outside your region's, rule which is GWS poor answer toward fighting exchange rates.

A lot of the problem is that GWS is public company and it has two (to its share holders) conflicting needs. GWS is a retailer of its own product but also the manufacture of it  product and the public interest see less GWS retail sales as a very bad thing.

But yea table to gaming has always and continues to be plagued by lack of business acumen. Even the big boys owned by even bigger companie still do super bone head mistakes. WOTC when they changed their ogl (for the worse) around the release of 4e caused a large bust in the industry. The second bust that WOTC can be said directly involved in.

[nenjin]

Well, it's not so much that table top hobby is a risky business. It's more to do that it lacks business men.

Having spent a good portion of my teenage years playing in hobby stores and talking to owners, I'd disagree.

For one, people do not frequent these places like they used to. Haven't since the mid to late 90s.

Secondly, as a store owner you are obliged by people like GWS to place big orders, as big as they'll allow. That inventory can then sit on your shelves for years before you see a return. People are not running out and buying those $200 starter sets like hotcakes.

And the rest of their inventory? Doesn't exactly bring a steady stream of income. Bits and pieces sure, but I don't think many hobby store owners are getting rich off of card games and splat books anymore.

So their margins are very small and they have to shift with the wind and reallocate their resources to what's popular. Meanwhile, GWS continues to make their hobby less and less accessible by raising prices and cranking out new editions yearly.

[MrWiggles]

Well, it's not so much that table top hobby is a risky business. It's more to do that it lacks business men.

Having spent a good portion of my teenage years playing in hobby stores and talking to owners, I'd disagree.

For one, people do not frequent these places like they used to. Haven't since the mid to late 90s.

Secondly, as a store owner you are obliged by people like GWS to place big orders, as big as they'll allow. That inventory can then sit on your shelves for years before you see a return. People are not running out and buying those $200 starter sets like hotcakes.

And the rest of their inventory? Doesn't exactly bring a steady stream of income. Bits and pieces sure, but I don't think many hobby store owners are getting rich off of card games and splat books anymore.

So their margins are very small and they have to shift with the wind and reallocate their resources to what's popular. Meanwhile, GWS continues to make their hobby less and less accessible by raising prices and cranking out new editions yearly.

Retail shop owners is an entirely different barrle of fish. Sorry about that, I was talking about the designers and producers of games. Brick and Motor stores are having to compete with on line retailers. Why go to a gaming store when rpg drivet hroughs will generally under cut them and always have a better selection?

[Boksi]

Brick and Motor stores are having to compete with on line retailers. Why go to a gaming store when rpg drivet hroughs will generally under cut them and always have a better selection?

Autocorrect much?

But a gaming store, a good gaming store that is, provides a good place to meet up with opponents and play your games. This might not be so important for RPGs, which can be comfortably played at home with the same few guys everytime, but tabletop games and card games benefit a lot from it. That's why I buy from my local gaming store.

[MrWiggles]

Brick and Motor stores are having to compete with on line retailers. Why go to a gaming store when rpg drivet hroughs will generally under cut them and always have a better selection?

Autocorrect much?

But a gaming store, a good gaming store that is, provides a good place to meet up with opponents and play your games. This might not be so important for RPGs, which can be comfortably played at home with the same few guys everytime, but tabletop games and card games benefit a lot from it. That's why I buy from my local gaming store.

Even now, Vassal and Virtual Tabletop, and roll20 other online services are even displacing the need for meat space for war games or board games.

[Boksi]

Brick and Motor stores are having to compete with on line retailers. Why go to a gaming store when rpg drivet hroughs will generally under cut them and always have a better selection?

Autocorrect much?

But a gaming store, a good gaming store that is, provides a good place to meet up with opponents and play your games. This might not be so important for RPGs, which can be comfortably played at home with the same few guys everytime, but tabletop games and card games benefit a lot from it. That's why I buy from my local gaming store.

Even now, Vassal and Virtual Tabletop, and roll20 other online services are even displacing the need for meat space for war games or board games.

They will never eliminate it, though. Playing the actual game is only half the fun. The other half of the hobby is the modeling and online services won't displace that in a hurry.

[SlyStalker]

People with financial concerns should definitely try one of the online outlets (personally I use Vassal, although I am looking into others). It's free, and there is always the chooce of switching to miniatures if you really like it. The online community is good too, none of that eight-year-old-Minecrafter shit. And that's a really positive feature of Bay 12 as well, I find.

[Sirus]

Brick and Motor stores are having to compete with on line retailers. Why go to a gaming store when rpg drivet hroughs will generally under cut them and always have a better selection?

Autocorrect much?

But a gaming store, a good gaming store that is, provides a good place to meet up with opponents and play your games. This might not be so important for RPGs, which can be comfortably played at home with the same few guys everytime, but tabletop games and card games benefit a lot from it. That's why I buy from my local gaming store.

Even now, Vassal and Virtual Tabletop, and roll20 other online services are even displacing the need for meat space for war games or board games.

They will never eliminate it, though. Playing the actual game is only half the fun. The other half of the hobby is the modeling and online services won't displace that in a hurry.

I agree. It's fun to try and mix parts together in ways that they probably weren't intended to fit. I have a Kroot squad for instance, and every model has bits and pieces from other armies stuck on as war trophies. Or in WHF land, I took an Imperial swordsman, lopped off the lower half of one of his legs, and replaced it with a bit of sprue. Instant peg-leg, instant character.

[Hanzoku]

One frustration I'm seeing more and more online is that they Games Workshop really needs to advance the 40k setting finally. They're diverting it by focusing a lot on Warhammer 30k (Horus Heresy-era) with new tech and models and so on, but the 40k setting has been in stasis for something like 20+ years at this point. They really should advance it by actually having one of the big events go off like the Golden Throne finally failing.

[Aedel]

Or the main tyranid fleet arriving. Or has it already?

[Mech#4]

All "Just about to's" as far as I'm aware. Warhammer Fantasy has/had an event going that has Nagash (Big bad necromancer) uniting the undead against the world. It'll probably end with no real advancement like the Nemesis Crown or Storm of Chaos.

I think the game events occur more to introduce new models rather than advance plot. Besides, since so much of Warhammer is based on the impending doom, actually toppling it over, while interesting certainly, would be represented by... new units? Loss of units? Different army lists? New factions?


It would be really weird if warhammer gained a new faction. Neat but... it hasn't changed in forever. Undead changed to Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts, Daemons of Chaos were split off from Warriors of Chaos and Chaos Space Marines.

[Bohandas]

Ah, Warhammer 40k, ye who I wonder why people are even interested in the lore anymore because its unwinnable for anyone likeable.

Which factions do you consider likeable?

To me any faction that isn't the Imperium seems at least relatively OK.

Case in point: When I used to play a few matches in the GW shops way back when, they'd let people use random bits stuck onto basic Space marines (which were pretty plentiful and cheap) to denote different or more expensive models (as long as it looked vaguely right  - although we did make cardboard bikes). Whereas when I took a family member recently they wouldn't let them use anything but the 100% correct figures and made them feel like shit for not having all the right stuff. This was apparently a rule from headquarters or something, and it definitely seemed as though there had been a mentality shift.

It's called WYSIWYG, or What You See Is What You Get. It originally started as a tournament guideline so people couldn't walk into official GWS tourneys with garbage and win the fairly expensive prizes.

But as the corruption spread through GWS, they made it the standing rule at all their stores, so that anyone playing there was spending money. GWS employees are some of the most aggressive employees I've ever seen in retail.

Not that it matters anymore, GWS can't afford to have standalone shops for their products anymore, anywhere except the UK.

Personally I make a point of never shopping at any store that only sells one brand of stuff.
There's always a disquieting and sinister feel about them.

[Sergarr]

You know, I always wondered: how would a grim-light setting look like?

[miljan]

It's called WYSIWYG, or What You See Is What You Get. It originally started as a tournament guideline so people couldn't walk into official GWS tourneys with garbage and win the fairly expensive prizes.

But as the corruption spread through GWS, they made it the standing rule at all their stores, so that anyone playing there was spending money. GWS employees are some of the most aggressive employees I've ever seen in retail.

Not that it matters anymore, GWS can't afford to have standalone shops for their products anymore, anywhere except the UK.

Ahh a good bit of background - definitely puts it into perspective. It's a shame that it spread to the store games though - I think they'd have kept a lot more business if they'd have been a bit more relaxed about stuff.

I'm really hoping they don't fizzle completely though - I imagine GW will drag all the IP down with them and it'll mean that they'll just be no GW stuff (games/books) instead of the mediocre stuff we have now.

The hobby market is notoriously risky. GWS has done as well as they have because they essentially have a captive audience. There is no "replacement good" for 40k. Sure, you can play War Machine or w/e, but people don't play 40k just for the table top experience.

That and GWS has been decently propped up by the video game market in the last few years. But I suspect their attention to the franchise is starting to slip, or loosen in unpleasant ways, because they're greenlighting shit like Storm of Vengeance, which no real 40k fan in their right mind would want to play.

A real fan would play anything that is done in 40k universe, including really ok tower defense like Storm of Vengeance. Hack I would even play adventure point and click game (that I dont like at all) done in Warhammer universe. More games done in 40k the better.