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[Fleeting Frames]

Despite having no quality (I think) and built from mere log, a dwarf can still

near a track stop (the only other buildings I have built are carpentry and craftsdwarf workshop).

In other news, tested avocado wood 6 earring loop + station order in hole. 175 exp per day without meeting area, 183 with, both inferior to 219 from earlier with 5 earrings and no station, and most experience tending to go towards the haulers with the meeting area in the hole...But still, somewhat useful way to occupy idlers (albeit it'll eat into FPS, brought it down from 1000 (capped) to around 700ish? on 3x3 shrubland) and train armor user in kids - though it'll make them grow attached to their clothes.

Also, was troubled with finding a way to build 5x5+ toggleable area for tavern (bridges would likely cause injuries, grates/hatches fall into holes when not supported - and upstairs or supports on level below do not work. ).

Hm, flooding it would work, expect guests would remain inside (expect maybe in case of 7/7, and not sure if they'd climb out or drown)....Which is fine, actually, if I don't want guests anywhere else - they do so love the pools. Would muddy the floors, though.

E: It appears dumping the earrings down a longer staircase (7z) with meeting area/stockpile at bottom has been most effective/fps-heavy so far. ~234,5 exp per day per dwarf, and divided far more evenly (432 low, 1,3k high over month).

I wonder if longer staircases would be most effective....*tests* 22z staircase/10 earrings/7 dwarves/meeting area in bottom/pastured animals gives me 10821 exp, spread into 1-3 armor user among the 7, which is 386 experience per day - with eating/drinking trip included. Looks like the earrings are multi-hit?

This is actually at the point where I consider it militarily useful. Neat!

(also produced 12-54 dodging experience per dwarf, likely due the last ascension level giving a spot to step aside on)

All 43.03, btw. This crashes in 43.05.

[oldmansutton]

Insect colonies appear to have no restrictions on location for spawning. I have a colony of termites on the top rim of my volcano, on bare obsidian, some 10 tiles away from the nearest plant life of any kind in all directions including vertically.

It seems also, that colonies don't obey the laws of gravity.  I caved in a section of ground to punch through an aquifer, and now have a colony of ants hovering in midair for the past 7 years (gametime), and no way to get rid of it.

[anewaname]

@oldmansutton

It seems also, that colonies don't obey the laws of gravity.  I caved in a section of ground to punch through an aquifer, and now have a colony of ants hovering in midair for the past 7 years (gametime), and no way to get rid of it.

Build a bridge that ends adjacent to the colony, build a floor over the colony, then deconstruct the floor and then the bridge.

@Fleeting Frames

Had a thought. Earrings are the lightest thing, and featherwood is the lightest material. Why not test coinstar in 43.03?

In another thread, you mentioned segfaults with earring/coinstar testing in 43.05. Do heavier items also cause the segfaults? I'm wondering if this is the inverse of the issue causing the unkillable wool. Rather than (0 divided by some number), you are getting (some number divided by 0), which would crash a program. There may be one "applied force verse volume/mass" formula used for both.

[oldmansutton]

@oldmansutton

It seems also, that colonies don't obey the laws of gravity.  I caved in a section of ground to punch through an aquifer, and now have a colony of ants hovering in midair for the past 7 years (gametime), and no way to get rid of it.

Build a bridge that ends adjacent to the colony, build a floor over the colony, then deconstruct the floor and then the bridge.

*facepalms*  So obvious in retrospect, especially considering all the other bridge/scaffolding I had up to build up the tower around the pit... I'll give it a try when I get home, thanks!

[Werdna]

@oldmansutton

It seems also, that colonies don't obey the laws of gravity.  I caved in a section of ground to punch through an aquifer, and now have a colony of ants hovering in midair for the past 7 years (gametime), and no way to get rid of it.

Build a bridge that ends adjacent to the colony, build a floor over the colony, then deconstruct the floor and then the bridge.

Won't this cause a cave-in (bridges can't support constructions), or is that the intent?

[Fleeting Frames]

Yeah, it'd cause a cave-in. Just flooring over and deconstructing is enough.

@anewaname: This same thread too, last page. Though I'd call this one with trackstop more QSP drop training.

And quick to test idea too, dropping 5 diorite boulders onto hapless expedition on team...

And no crash, just bunch of injuries and deaths. Though, given that the contact area of an earring should still be 1 (and whips work in 43.05), I'd be more likely to suspect weight (being below 1 urist).

Though, given normal weapons work, featherwood training sword might be best bet, still having <1 Urist weight. *tests* Two dwarves started to bleed in a single day with 9 swords - mostly on the lower z-levels. Toes and finger...*Tests* But single z is dangerous too.

Testing with bracelets. Since avocado earrings worked in 43.03, bracelets should be fine-ish...but over 6 times as big as earring.

And, well...These injuries keep occurring to primarily two dwarves:


Suggesting that what had no force before when hitting is now more damaging. Though I didn't look what happens when one breaks, because either way they're already not workable for training unarmored dwarves.

Between earrings and bracelets remains just rings (and various coin stack sizes and seeds). With size 5, I expect they'll cause a crash, though.

*tests*

Yep, segfault. Not quite instant segfault like with earrings, though (I got to see dwarves reload minecart once), so...

Anyway, I'm thinking the twisting forces are perhaps also at play here - with items that have no force causing the faults.

[anewaname]

Yeah, it'd cause a cave-in. Just flooring over and deconstructing is enough.

The idea of using the bridge was for ease of deconstruction, since you don't want to deconstruct a 1-wide floor with one order (dwarf deconstructs floor that other dwarf is standing on). Ah well.

Anyway, I'm thinking the twisting forces are perhaps also at play here - with items that have no force causing the faults.

Did those two dwarfs have a different type of head cover? If the items causing the segfault are all light items and you can estimate what items will cause a segfault and what will not, then it should narrow it down enough for a bug report. The "force applied" formula's result was probably so low compared to "struck location's mass/volume" that it falls below significant digits and is effectively rounded to zero, triggering the segfault somehow. It may be that the bracelet hitting ears didn't trigger a segfault because the ear is a small mass/volume area, while the "bend to the head" did.

[Werdna]

Yeah, it'd cause a cave-in. Just flooring over and deconstructing is enough.

The idea of using the bridge was for ease of deconstruction, since you don't want to deconstruct a 1-wide floor with one order (dwarf deconstructs floor that other dwarf is standing on). Ah well.

For that situation I'd suggest a ramp next to a 1x1 wall located beneath the anthill.  Build floor over anthill, remove floor (top of wall remains to stand on), remove wall + ramp.

[oldmansutton]

Hmmm, here's the situation:  This colony is about 5 z-levels above solid ground, and about 6 x/y tiles from the nearest floor.

Do you mean designate a floor to be built over a colony, then remove the unstarted building via the Q-menu?  Actually.... I wouldn't have access, so... ah, hence the bridge.  To provide the access to the tile to designate the building.  Or if I actually have to build the floor, it won't be too hard to 5 floors out to the colony.  I've done more insane things with the building of this fort already.

T-Minus 9 minutes until the work day ends, and I can test this out!  Although, the third goblin siege is waiting for me when I get back first

[NonconsensualSurgery]

I tried dumping vampire-split single adamantine coins one at a time from an initial height of 1 z-level.

The coins break noses through steel armor and wear our clothing super-fast. Nobody in leather armor died to single coins but they were incredibly beat-up and bruised.

I also tried letting a few hundred split coins accumulate on a hatch cover, then dropped them all at once with a lever. Many coins at once has an additive training effect and caused test subjects to go from novice (rusty) to competent armor user instantly, but also might have an additive force effect because this mangled a marksdwarf's throat through leather armor.

Dwarves can be stacked vertically on a staircase so falling coins have multiple targets on the way down. I have access to zombie skins which are easier and safer. This might sort of work as a way to train diagnosers. Hospital is near max capacity so I'm stopping the test.

[Fleeting Frames]

Didn't check head cover.

Though in test forts, looking at....gamelog.txt, whoa 203 MB?! I only ran 1 fort in 43.05!
For earrings, seems there were some lines:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The XXwillow earringXX strikes the stoneworker in the right lower leg, bruising the muscle through the (cave spider silk robe)!
The XXwillow earringXX breaks!
The force twists the right knee!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The X{*feather wood earring*}X strikes the militia commander in the right lower leg, bruising the muscle through the (llama wool robe)!
The XX{-feather wood earring-}XX strikes the militia commander in the left lower leg, bruising the muscle through the (llama wool robe)!
The XX{-feather wood earring-}XX breaks!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The XX-feather wood ring-XX strikes the fish cleaner in the right foot, bruising the muscle through the (horse leather shoe)!
The XX-feather wood ring-XX breaks!
The force pulls the right ankle!

Hm, this suggests that small items are more vulnerable, but it is the breaking segfaulting.

Testing again, with 1 bracelet (and new, empty gamelog.txt)

....Whoops, with forgetting the walls it trains dodger instead.

...And then it suddenly crashes after nearly a month, with me never seeing C.
(Granted, running at 600 FPS)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*** STARTING NEW GAME ***
** Starting New Outpost **
The feather wood bracelet strikes the expedition leader in the right lower leg, bruising the muscle through the (reindeer leather trousers)!
The force twists the right knee!
The xfeather wood braceletx strikes the expedition leader in the lower body, bruising the muscle through the (pig tail coat)!
The Xfeather wood braceletX strikes the expedition leader in the lower body, bruising the muscle through the (pig tail coat)!
The XXfeather wood braceletXX strikes the expedition leader in the head, bruising the muscle through the (pig tail cap)!
The force pulls the neck, bruising the skin!
The XXfeather wood braceletXX strikes the expedition leader in the left upper leg, bruising the muscle through the (pig tail coat)!
The XXfeather wood braceletXX breaks!
The force pulls the left hip!

Yeah, it sure looks like item wear segfaulting, with smaller items taking more wear.
Though, I'll note all quotes end in twisting, so perhaps it is twisting by nonexistent item?

@NonconsensualSurgery: Coins should be modelled as blunt weapons, which should leave adamantine coins as lightest, most harmless thing. However...if they're modelled as sharp, this doesn't hold true.

Or if they need at least hit area 1 for this to apply (I suspect the hit area is floored), then single coins might be more dangerous than 6-stack coins (which would bump the volume of the stack up to 18/16), possibly having 0 hit area.

Even without that, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger and possibly gives fatal infection.

And yeah, even without access to zombie skins attacking wildlife with dual shields is enough if all you want to do is raise the armour user of military adults.
(might want to let them have some shield/dodge training first in case of hoofed/tusked creatures, saved the life of my queen this way)

This seems like reasonable alternative to training spears in 43.03 for training kids (more of a FPS hit, but I think you're less likely to kill unclothed kids this way).

[NonconsensualSurgery]

Depressed vampires can be cheered up by socializing through glass windows.

The crystal glass vampire observation booth and adjacent necro-numismatics chamber have been designated a tavern. She is somewhat less depressed to have socialized, performed, and told stories. Come one, come all, see the amazing vampire story-teller!

[steel jackal]

Depressed vampires can be cheered up by socializing through glass windows.

The crystal glass vampire observation booth and adjacent necro-numismatics chamber have been designated a tavern. She is somewhat less depressed to have socialized, performed, and told stories. Come one, come all, see the amazing vampire story-teller!

add a curtain to his box/booth and charge 25c for his performance XD

[Staalo]

Mere magma isn't enough to deter those builders of ancient underground roads: I just found a bridge spanning a magma pipe in the first cavern layer. Very scenic and charming.

[Werdna]

Goblins will be motivated to jump a 2-tile airgap to attack livestock bait (or any friendly, visible unit) but then will not jump back across unless they directly sight new hostiles.  For anyone looking for a simple one-way passage effect, or to 'isolate' potentially large numbers of invaders without mass cage-traps or bridges.