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Author Topic: Skies of Alzeran [7] - *THOOMP*  (Read 17413 times)

Rolepgeek

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Re: Skies of Alzeran [9/??] - Night of Evil Clouds 3: Cometted to Devastation!
« Reply #195 on: December 01, 2014, 09:30:06 pm »

Blergh. Would take too long to do all the fluff this turn.

Keep going south, see if we can descend to shield ourselves a bit from the wind, and land on the island.
If we can't go against the wind yet, put 6 points of Growth into Propulsion.
If we do manage to do so, develop two Forager Squads for when we land (3 Growth each, made for land-combat and harvesting materials, primarily biomass).
If we can land, create Burrow Crystals to dig us deeper into the island, and start incorporating the mass of the island by creating Assimilation Vessels(3 Growth and 4 Growth, respectively; we are biomechanical and fairly advanced, so by restructuring the elements within the rock, we can typically find a way to use the mass, though biomatter is easier to assimilate, of course.)
Continue staying out of the conflict to the south; while it would be nice to try and catch the devastator Airship and assimilate it, as it seems unlikely to survive very long, it would be wisest, over all, to stay out of it for now. The island must occupy our attention for now; assimilation and transformation of the entire island into the Hive, possibly changing from a Hive Cruiser to a Hive Flagship(Oh joyous day!) or Supercarrier, must be the priority.
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Aklyon

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Re: Skies of Alzeran [9/??] - Night of Evil Clouds 3: Cometted to Devastation!
« Reply #196 on: December 01, 2014, 10:25:31 pm »

The wind is approximately 5 or 6 propulsion right now. Active engines tend to be given a bit of a nudge to help them get where they were intending to go (As previously seen, its not enough to prevail against high winds with very low stat), while castles not moving do not get helped much.
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flame99

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Re: Skies of Alzeran [9/??] - Night of Evil Clouds 3: Cometted to Devastation!
« Reply #197 on: December 01, 2014, 10:40:03 pm »

Out of curiosity, what happens if we get blown off the edge by the wind?
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Aklyon

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Re: Skies of Alzeran [9/??] - Night of Evil Clouds 3: Cometted to Devastation!
« Reply #198 on: December 02, 2014, 12:01:20 am »

You get blown to a random other non-occupied edge tile. Other things might happen too. :)
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It's known as the Oppai-Kaiju effect. The islands of Japan generate a sort anti-gravity field, which allows breasts to behave as if in microgravity. It's also what allows Godzilla and friends to become 50 stories tall, and lets ninjas run up the side of a skyscraper.

Eric Blank

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Re: Skies of Alzeran [9/??] - Night of Evil Clouds 3: Cometted to Devastation!
« Reply #199 on: December 02, 2014, 02:15:42 am »

Orders:
Prepare to: continue firing artillery. Redeploy drones. Cease laser fire.

Send communications to Devastator Airship:
"You have been awarded a demonstration of this vessel's combat capabilities. I offer you one more chance to surrender, unconditionally, or be destroyed."

Engines crew: maintain position as best possible.

Direct 1 capacitor charge to engines.

Direct 1 capacitor charge to structure maintenance systems.

Someone will carry the research assistant to the medbay. She will be lectured later about her failing to evacuate with the rest of her team.
A security officer will tie down that bow and seal off the area for the moment.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 02:17:48 am by Eric Blank »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Skies of Alzeran [9/??] - Night of Evil Clouds 3: Cometted to Devastation!
« Reply #200 on: December 02, 2014, 05:39:42 am »

Heaven's acropolis fired more weaponry than the max cap allows. 44 drones + 12v precision laser +52 artillery.= 108. Also, they have just 6 lasers, not 7.

Why were the drones not blocked by the blaze protocol or the capacitors. Then they would have failed to hit. Last resort armor is intended for last resorts, after all. Even if they weren't blocked by that you forgot to subtract the specialization damage reduction. (-25% for 5 or lower. 0 is still lower than 5 last time I checked.).

The Retribution capacitors have 20 specialization, not 16. Artillery should have missed/been absorbed. Assuming absorbed.

On a side note, those PD systems conflict with the rules. They have 9 massiveness, yet 20 specialization. By the rules, they should either have a drawback or lower specialization. If lower specialization missiles should have hit.

Conclusion: My ship is undamaged, enemy vessel implodes due to spontanous reactor overload and being murdered by missile weaponry.

Query : How do you decide which defense defends against what anyway?

On a side note, 1 capacitor charge for 1 attack will be problematic against enemies with a few big guns. I think a more fair system would be 1 charge for every 10 damage that the weapon would have done had it hit. ( which gives me 3 charge from the lasers, and 13 from the artillery) Min 1 charge per attack though.



Devastator airship

Your eyes are flawed. Your demonstration does not impress. We do not surrender to those who aid or spread the infection. All systems in optimal condition. Engage Blink drives..
Blink drive: Jump from J18 to L16 (-2 charge)
Launch all torpedos on  a circular trajectory, launch and detonate poison gas canisters. Leave the duck. And all of the doom thingies.
Blink drive: Jump from L16 to G17 (-5 charge) (Location switch dumps the acropolis in the cloud of deadly doom things)

Now, we have your research team within firing range. Surrender or they will be cleansed.

Message to Unit location E14. Your behavior matched heuristic analysis for infection. Major matching traits : Rapid Changes/Adaption , Infection of surroundings. Failed Match: Hostility to cleansing operation. Please confirm you're not infected.

Hoped for result : Acropolis ends up in a poison cloud(canisters are set to immediate detonation, meaning they detonate before the acropolis arrived, (leaving PD unable to intervene) leaving it in a poison cloud with deadly doom things, (and a duck) and with several incoming torpedos, while we end up at their former location. Due to repeated jumps, all their non-laser weaponry should logically miss right?

Crew action : Adjust armor. With current massiveness, 12 specialization is feasible (this was as I intended it. I forgot to adjust it when I adjusted the sheet). Use our technological gift which name I can't be bothered to remember as an advanced design tool to aid in this endavour.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
[/quote][/spoiler]

On a side note, it would be really nice if people, especially those who tend to reconfigure their entire ship each turn, would include updated sheets with their ships.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 01:13:09 pm by 10ebbor10 »
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Aklyon

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Re: Skies of Alzeran [9/??] - Night of Evil Clouds 3: Cometted to Devastation!
« Reply #201 on: December 02, 2014, 08:52:53 am »

Query : How do you decide which defense defends against what anyway?
I'll answer this first, then go look over the things.Edits will be in this post. Put simply, I look at the descriptions of them. If something is good at fighting projectiles, I try to put it against projectiles. This can be changed depending on what happens (like very high damage), but generally is not.

Onwards to edits:
>Overcap
Correct. Looking at Eric's math however, I may have activated too many lasers. 'By add one laser', I thought there was one built and activated (6+1), but if he meant 'and use one laser as well', his math would be correct (1 of 6, making it 96 points+3). Regardless, the shots missed and got absorbed by the capacitors, this just means less of them hit you.

>6 lasers, not 7
Their action for the post involved adding one laser specifically. 6+1 is 7.
Probably wrong, see above.

>Why were the drones not blocked by the blaze protocol or the capacitors. Then they would have failed to hit.
The hit results didn't improve, this is true; but the damage was actually lower than originally since I redid that as well (Crit roll was not changed between the two.). Their original target was indeed Blaze Protocols, and while I don't have the exact amount on hand (this would be a good time for Gig's invisible castle suggestion I suppose, but I hadn't been using it since it hadn't seemed necessary to log rolls when they were written down in the post anyway), it was still a substantial amount of damage after subtracting spec. and the small amount of protocol integrity. (the drones' weapon is unspecified, ask eric if it would count as one affected by the capacitor or fire)
For the reason why they hit the armor, its very simple. The short answer is in the turn post: GM manipulation prevents complete destruction. The long answer is: When they hit the blaze protocols, they had the damage reduction, and then since i don't know what the weapon is, they tore through the integrity of the protocols and would've OHKO'd you when combined with the artillery who also originally aimed at the blaze protocols. I am totally fine with changing it back to that if this is what you want :P

>(-25% for 5 or lower. 0 is still lower than 5 last time I checked.)
I know I haven't directly pointed this out or mentioned it in the OP, but its shown up in dice rolls at least twice by this point. Zero specialization is considered no bonus, since there is nothing special about how it works with anything. Give me an argument for changing it if you want, but I should probably clarify that in the OP anyway.

>The Retribution capacitors have 20 specialization, not 16. Artillery should have missed/been absorbed.
Miss, no. The dice decide misses, defense effects come afterwards. For absorption, I could see a way to that point, but see below.

>PD too good
They are, actually. Suppose I was looking at the wrong stat when I'd checked at the beginning. I'll reroll the torpedo hits (once each, with draws going to defense if there are any) with the changed PD if its a stats change and not an added drawback, unless the drawback would prevent it from countering three attacks in succession. If thats the case, it'll only go up to how many it can do, not the entire set of them.

>Conclusion: My ship is undamaged
I'll give you the castle stats undamaged (and one repaired capacitor in exchange for breaking one blaze protocol instead of zapping it) but the defenses stay attacked as they were until you repair them, your ship isn't a shining example of unquestioned stats either ;)

>On a side note, 1 capacitor charge for 1 attack will be problematic against enemies with a few big guns. I think a more fair system would be 1 charge for every 10 damage that the weapon would have done had it hit. ( which gives me 3 charge from the lasers, and 13 from the artillery) Min 1 charge per attack though.
Well its your power, and at first glance that doesn't sound terrible.

Also, the evac cars headed west. As in, towards Zipworld. Switching position with the Acropolis does not put you in the same tile as them, they're jsut too small to bother putting on the map and/or I don't want to update the map for one detail I'd forgot, pick one.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 09:56:51 am by Aklyon »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Skies of Alzeran [9/??] - Night of Evil Clouds 3: Cometted to Devastation!
« Reply #202 on: December 02, 2014, 12:50:14 pm »

Query : How do you decide which defense defends against what anyway?
I'll answer this first, then go look over the things.Edits will be in this post. Put simply, I look at the descriptions of them. If something is good at fighting projectiles, I try to put it against projectiles. This can be changed depending on what happens (like very high damage), but generally is not.


Can I use therefore use fluff to influence result? In this case, the poison gas canister is chemical which burns to release poisonous gas. Same goes for the Fluoride torpedoes. Firing a PD laser at those would be useless, as it would merely ensure detonation, and since the firing vessel in this case was downwind of the attack...

Quote
>Why were the drones not blocked by the blaze protocol or the capacitors. Then they would have failed to hit.
The hit results didn't improve, this is true; but the damage was actually lower than originally since I redid that as well (Crit roll was not changed between the two.). Their original target was indeed Blaze Protocols, and while I don't have the exact amount on hand (this would be a good time for Gig's invisible castle suggestion I suppose, but I hadn't been using it since it hadn't seemed necessary to log rolls when they were written down in the post anyway), it was still a substantial amount of damage after subtracting spec. and the small amount of protocol integrity. (the drones' weapon is unspecified, ask eric if it would count as one affected by the capacitor or fire)
For the reason why they hit the armor, its very simple. The short answer is in the turn post: GM manipulation prevents complete destruction. The long answer is: When they hit the blaze protocols, they had the damage reduction, and then since i don't know what the weapon is, they tore through the integrity of the protocols and would've OHKO'd you when combined with the artillery who also originally aimed at the blaze protocols. I am totally fine with changing it back to that if this is what you want :P
Yeah, that seems to have been a misunderstanding of how defensive systems work. I taught, logically, that a system would first get blocked by the specialization based defenses, and that any excess damage would be transferred to the tank based defenses, before moving on to the remainder.

But yeah; leave it at armor damage. 3 armor plates destroyed. 4 excess damage going to integrity/structure.

Quote
>(-25% for 5 or lower. 0 is still lower than 5 last time I checked.)
I know I haven't directly pointed this out or mentioned it in the OP, but its shown up in dice rolls at least twice by this point. Zero specialization is considered no bonus, since there is nothing special about how it works with anything. Give me an argument for changing it if you want, but I should probably clarify that in the OP anyway.
The obvious argument is that having a 0 there should not happen, and in my case was an unfortunate typo. The lowest specialization any weapon should have is 5, due the ways caps work. In my case, the armor plating should have had 12 specialization.

Speaking of similar errors. The blaze protocols were also incorrect. Should have had 12 armor.

Something says me I simply forgot to update those when I reworked the ship for the changed rule set. I fully understand if I don't get to retroactively min max stuff.
Quote
>The Retribution capacitors have 20 specialization, not 16. Artillery should have missed/been absorbed.
Miss, no. The dice decide misses, defense effects come afterwards. For absorption, I could see a way to that point, but see below.

Quote from: Turn
Artillery x4 vs Retribution Capacitors: 14+18 (32) vs 16+16 (32), draw.

According to the rules, this is a d20+Stability versus a d20+ specialization.  So that would have been 14+18 versus 16+20, meaning the artillery missed/was absorbed.

Quote
>PD too good
They are, actually. Suppose I was looking at the wrong stat when I'd checked at the beginning. I'll reroll the torpedo hits (once each, with draws going to defense if there are any) with the changed PD if its a stats change and not an added drawback, unless the drawback would prevent it from countering three attacks in succession. If thats the case, it'll only go up to how many it can do, not the entire set of them.

This gets quite complicated considering if, as I assume the order in which the weapons are noted is the order in which stuff hits; means that my torpedos could have damaged his weapons before they even fired.

On a side note, I see no reason to benefit someone for breaking the rules in their favor. Therefore, no reason to let draws go in favor of the defense since that was not already the case before.

Edit: Speaking of which, his ablative armor is also too good. It has 8 massiveness for 20 integrity. Clearly, that needs to be adjusted as well. Oh, and both the evacuation cars and the damage control drones are faulty as well.  9*3/4 doesn't equal 6.

Quote
>Conclusion: My ship is undamaged
I'll give you the castle stats undamaged (and one repaired capacitor in exchange for breaking one blaze protocol instead of zapping it) but the defenses stay attacked as they were until you repair them, your ship isn't a shining example of unquestioned stats either ;)
When errors were point out, they were fixed. On a side note, the drones did indeed still hit, that is a mistake of mine. I stand by the fact that the artillery missed though.

Quote
>On a side note, 1 capacitor charge for 1 attack will be problematic against enemies with a few big guns. I think a more fair system would be 1 charge for every 10 damage that the weapon would have done had it hit. ( which gives me 3 charge from the lasers, and 13 from the artillery) Minimum 1 charge per attack though.
Well its your power, and at first glance that doesn't sound terrible.
It makes more sense.

Quote
Also, the evac cars headed west. As in, towards Zipworld. Switching position with the Acropolis does not put you in the same tile as them, they're jsut too small to bother putting on the map and/or I don't want to update the map for one detail I'd forgot, pick one.
The Flamethrower fired across 4 spaces. I'll think it'll manage to make the point.



So final conclusion.

Drones did hit: Destroyed 3 armor plates and did 4 structure damage
Artillery missed/absorbed : +13 charge
1 laser fired : +1 charge
Artillery never hit => Duck never intruded, no crew deaths.

Final stat list.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 01:07:25 pm by 10ebbor10 »
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Aklyon

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Re: Skies of Alzeran [9/??] - Night of Evil Clouds 3: Cometted to Devastation!
« Reply #203 on: December 02, 2014, 01:47:57 pm »

If the duck didn't intrude, that just gives me something to throw back at you later, y'know.

Quote
Can I use therefore use fluff to influence result?
Somewhat. A torpedo is going to be treated as a torpedo regardless, since it is a projectile that can be shot down (and with a strong enough laser, the contents would be vaporized), but the canisters I've been treating as missiles for simplicity. They could be something else, perhaps. Keep in mind that I do combat dice and the results thereof last in turns, so fluff-based results may vary depending on how long its taken to finish the rest of the post.

Quote
On a side note, I see no reason to benefit someone for breaking the rules in their favor. Therefore, no reason to let draws go in favor of the defense since that was not already the case before.
While you have a point here, I'd mostly set it up like that since it was a reroll. I'm not going to give the attacker an advantage for my mistake, and defense wins draws is essentially the same as having no draws in the first place, since if I was going to ignore draws instead they would still do nothing if they come up. The only point to the rerolls is 'did you actually hit a damn thing with a proper defender', and if you tie then I'm saying no, you did not.

Quote
I fully understand if I don't get to retroactively min max stuff.
* Aklyon nods

On the artillery yes, that is something I forgot to reroll when I changed the targets. Energy given.

9*3/4 = 6.75. That is literally only 1 point off if rounded up, and his defenses aren't even close to maxed out anyway at 29 points. Overruled, but noted.
The armor I'm ignoring. You both have armor, and both make big hits. It can come up later outside of battle, and it'll probably get blown up anyway.

Quote
This gets quite complicated considering if, as I assume the order in which the weapons are noted is the order in which stuff hits; means that my torpedos could have damaged his weapons before they even fired.
I only sort out the order of things via speed if more than one side hits. The order they're in in the hit section is mostly irrelevant and prone to copy-paste-roll again if its an extended battle. Also you never mentioned where to fire the torpedoes (though the point works otherwise, sorta), you just said to fire everything. So they'll hit defenses if they hit, and I'll put together a speed list for continuity's sake.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 01:49:28 pm by Aklyon »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Skies of Alzeran [9/??] - Night of Evil Clouds 3: Cometted to Devastation!
« Reply #204 on: December 02, 2014, 02:16:17 pm »

If the duck didn't intrude, that just gives me something to throw back at you later, y'know.

I did say that I intended to leave it behind via repeated blink drive jumps. Persistent fellow, that one. I really hope he makes it to the end of the game.

Quote
Can I use therefore use fluff to influence result?
Somewhat. A torpedo is going to be treated as a torpedo regardless, since it is a projectile that can be shot down (and with a strong enough laser, the contents would be vaporized), but the canisters I've been treating as missiles for simplicity. They could be something else, perhaps. Keep in mind that I do combat dice and the results thereof last in turns, so fluff-based results may vary depending on how long its taken to finish the rest of the post.
[/quote]
A crewmember is directed to (cautiously) attach a cardboard sign to the Torpedoes. It reads : "Unstoppable unmanned kamikaze airship". They're also painted red, for good measure.

Quote
Quote
On a side note, I see no reason to benefit someone for breaking the rules in their favor. Therefore, no reason to let draws go in favor of the defense since that was not already the case before.
While you have a point here, I'd mostly set it up like that since it was a reroll. I'm not going to give the attacker an advantage for my mistake, and defense wins draws is essentially the same as having no draws in the first place, since if I was going to ignore draws instead they would still do nothing if they come up. The only point to the rerolls is 'did you actually hit a damn thing with a proper defender', and if you tie then I'm saying no, you did not.
It's all about odds right? On a side note, would it not be more fair to mere utilize the rolls as is, and modify only the other stuff?

So the common torpedoes still miss, but the Poison torpedoes would hit.

Quote
Quote
I fully understand if I don't get to retroactively min max stuff.
* Aklyon nods
Is this a yes or a no?

Quote
On the artillery yes, that is something I forgot to reroll when I changed the targets. Energy given.
Yay.

Quote
9*3/4 = 6.75. That is literally only 1 point off if rounded up, and his defenses aren't even close to maxed out anyway at 29 points. Overruled, but noted.
The armor I'm ignoring. You both have armor, and both make big hits. It can come up later outside of battle, and it'll probably get blown up anyway.
I Can change a lot of things if I get to round stuff up or down in my favor. But yeah, his defenses seem to still use the old rules.

Quote
This gets quite complicated considering if, as I assume the order in which the weapons are noted is the order in which stuff hits; means that my torpedos could have damaged his weapons before they even fired.
I only sort out the order of things via speed if more than one side hits. The order they're in in the hit section is mostly irrelevant and prone to copy-paste-roll again if its an extended battle. Also you never mentioned where to fire the torpedoes (though the point works otherwise, sorta), you just said to fire everything. So they'll hit defenses if they hit, and I'll put together a speed list for continuity's sake.
[/quote]
Technically, the fluoride torpedos could take out the point defenses, or even kill crew, thus preventing drone control.

However, they have speed 1, so I won't count on that.
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Aklyon

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Re: Skies of Alzeran [9/??] - Night of Evil Clouds 3: Cometted to Devastation!
« Reply #205 on: December 02, 2014, 02:31:13 pm »

The rounding is less 'its ok' and more 'i can't be bothered, its too small and there are more important things to pay attention to'. Its been pointed out, he should change it, but I didn't feel like responding to it more than 'at least it was close'.

Quote
It's all about odds right? On a side note, would it not be more fair to mere utilize the rolls as is, and modify only the other stuff?

So the common torpedoes still miss, but the Poison torpedoes would hit.
I guess.

Quote
However, they have speed 1, so I won't count on that.
You ain't catchin' nothin with speed 1 unless something else like the hit roll says otherwise. :P Especially without favorable wind.

>retroactive
Its a yes, you do not get to. :)

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It's known as the Oppai-Kaiju effect. The islands of Japan generate a sort anti-gravity field, which allows breasts to behave as if in microgravity. It's also what allows Godzilla and friends to become 50 stories tall, and lets ninjas run up the side of a skyscraper.

10ebbor10

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Re: Skies of Alzeran [9/??] - Night of Evil Clouds 3: Cometted to Devastation!
« Reply #206 on: December 02, 2014, 02:57:05 pm »

The wind is blowing west right?
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Aklyon

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Re: Skies of Alzeran [9/??] - Night of Evil Clouds 3: Cometted to Devastation!
« Reply #207 on: December 02, 2014, 03:09:50 pm »

The winds shift again, this time blowing northwards
The wind is blowing north.
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It's known as the Oppai-Kaiju effect. The islands of Japan generate a sort anti-gravity field, which allows breasts to behave as if in microgravity. It's also what allows Godzilla and friends to become 50 stories tall, and lets ninjas run up the side of a skyscraper.

Eric Blank

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Re: Skies of Alzeran [9/??] - Night of Evil Clouds 3: Cometted to Devastation!
« Reply #208 on: December 02, 2014, 05:53:30 pm »

correction: I only fired one of the laser batteries. Total mass should be 44+52+3=99.

I didnt realize I'd made a mistake on the PD lasers and armor. Sorry about that; I will fix it now. (?)

For reference:

lasers project photons in the infrared->green spectrum.

Shredder cannons are bullshit "energy weapons" that grab, rip and tear at objects until they hopefully break.

drones use machine guns, solid metal slugs. Aklyon's description of them "strafing the deck" is accurate for their usage, although obviously it would be idiocy to approach too close to the target, or you'd risk collisions.

artillery fire solid metal slugs currently. I will clarify this on the stats sheet.

I'm not a thermodynamics wiz, but melting the projectiles with the blaze protocol would, I suppose, give you flying hunks of molten metal (or very hot metal) moving along roughly the same trajectory at roughly the same speed.

Updated stat sheet:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Let me know if there are any other errors...
Caught the errors with the DC drones and evac cars. I thought we were supposed to round down. I apologize.


also question: At what point (how many charge points) does the retribution capacitor come online?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 09:46:33 pm by Eric Blank »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Skies of Alzeran [9/??] - Night of Evil Clouds 3: Cometted to Devastation!
« Reply #209 on: December 02, 2014, 06:01:19 pm »

The retribution capacitor uses, as far as I know, one charge per tile it moves.
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