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[Chevaleresse]

The new emotions are great and everything, but two of the dwarves in my fortress, after only living there for a year for one and barely three months for the other, are both depressed. They're haggard from the stress of missing a loved one and each has around ten thoughts each from this, completely outweighing all of the "blissful" and "satisfied" thoughts from food, tables, et cetera. It's a tad ridiculous that a dwarf would decide to migrate to a fortress in the middle of nowhere, then immediately start weeping and moaning about how dearly they miss their brother/uncle/etc (one of them has like 50 cousins and 10 aunts/uncles).

[GavJ]

This happens all the time in reality, why's it ridiculous?

If it were EVERY migrant, sure, but it's just a couple of them. There were definitely a few people super depressed and breaking down in dorms within 3 months-year when I was a freshman. I'm sure it happens WAY MORE in more extreme and committed things like the military, but I don't know personally.

"Well why did they go to college then so far away!!? Or why did they enlist?" Because people make mistakes...? Seems like a pretty cool flavor detail and a nice little intricate and realistic challenge for the player to me.

You can't really say "new emotions are great." And then in the same post "I don't like some of these emotions because they don't conform to hyper rational expectations." Well no. They're emotions. That's sort of how emotions work.

[Dirst]

I read the OP as "this is generally a great feature but this particular odd case is game-breaking."  It's more of a balancing issue than anything else... And not exactly welcoming to newbies.

"Oh, some migrants!  Now I can get more done.  Wait, why is everyone wiggling around and the floor turning red?"

[GavJ]

Emotions seem like something that should be pretty much game breakingly challenging, consdering how easy it is to die if you AREN'T hyper rational in DF world.

I'd more so favor them being given a nerf mode as part of a tutorial difficulty setting in general, or just turn off toggle in general for newbies if that's too much effort. OR an all emotions slider for strength, but without the nitpicking individual types (bonus: you could turn it up beyond current levels if you wanted) Rather than fiddling with them directly at full strength like this until they're just watered down into non-interesting-ness.  Game needs more random challenges desperately.

[Chevaleresse]

I just think it's unfair that there is literally nothing a player can do to compensate for this. Good furniture (at least the amount that was enough to keep a dwarf happy previously) can't outweigh the constant barrage of negative thoughts, so the only solution to lonely migrants is to atom smash them before they cave in your expedition leader's skull. There's no guarantee that relative will ever immigrate, either.

[tonnot98]

This happens all the time in reality, why's it ridiculous?

If it were EVERY migrant, sure, but it's just a couple of them. There were definitely a few people super depressed and breaking down in dorms within 3 months-year when I was a freshman. I'm sure it happens WAY MORE in more extreme and committed things like the military, but I don't know personally.

Well in reality, most people don't break down productive factories and cave in a random person's face with their fist when missing someone.

[GavJ]

This happens all the time in reality, why's it ridiculous?

If it were EVERY migrant, sure, but it's just a couple of them. There were definitely a few people super depressed and breaking down in dorms within 3 months-year when I was a freshman. I'm sure it happens WAY MORE in more extreme and committed things like the military, but I don't know personally.

Well in reality, most people don't break down productive factories and cave in a random person's face with their fist when missing someone.

Fair enough. What if Toady changed certain kinds of bad thoughts to guarantee melancholy (or a less-than-insane variant of it) instead of tantruming? I'm surprised he didn't overhaul tantruming already as part of emotions, actually.  That might solve the issue. ANGER leads to punching people. Missing loved ones leads to just not doing your work, etc.

[Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum]

You know, I think it would be okay if this was only for a husband/child, but who really misses their cousins that much?
Maybe it could just be one "misses extended family" thought instead of every person individually?

[Chevaleresse]

This happens all the time in reality, why's it ridiculous?

If it were EVERY migrant, sure, but it's just a couple of them. There were definitely a few people super depressed and breaking down in dorms within 3 months-year when I was a freshman. I'm sure it happens WAY MORE in more extreme and committed things like the military, but I don't know personally.

Well in reality, most people don't break down productive factories and cave in a random person's face with their fist when missing someone.

Fair enough. What if Toady changed certain kinds of bad thoughts to guarantee melancholy (or a less-than-insane variant of it) instead of tantruming? I'm surprised he didn't overhaul tantruming already as part of emotions, actually.  That might solve the issue. ANGER leads to punching people. Missing loved ones leads to just not doing your work, etc.

You know, I think it would be okay if this was only for a husband/child, but who really misses their cousins that much?
Maybe it could just be one "misses extended family" thought instead of every person individually?

These would be acceptable to me. It'd be fine if the quality and speed of the dwarf's work suffered, but "I'm so sad, my 238472 cousins aren't here, so GRAAGH PUNCH KILL ARRGH" is not particularly logical. Maybe if the dwarf had a high propensity to anger in their personality, or being in such a state made them more susceptible to annoyance and rage, but just plain missing people won't drive someone into a berserk rage on it's own.

[Larix]

The problem as i see it is that such migrants can make up almost half of a large migration wave - i got a wave of about thirty dwarfs, and a dozen or more started showing the orange arrow after about half a year. In addition, the thought is _very_ strong and persistent, it seems to refresh itself in a very short interval, leading to an inevitable slow meltdown. When you have a pop cap of 50, it's not very feasible when more than ten of those are sooner or later going to throw fatal tantrums. In spite of doing my best to provide them with nice architecture, food and drink and satisfying work as well as enough spare time and an always on-duty mayor, tantrums broke out after a bit more than a year and cost me fifteen dwarfs, over one third of the adult population, and of the remaining 25, nine are still stressed or worse and more likely to melt down than to stabilise.

I actually think the absent relatives thought is currently bugged; it feels like it's supposed to be a one-shot deal but erroneously gets re-triggered pretty much with the dwarf's "think" interval, leading to a steady stream of unhappiness.

[The Bard]

It really seems to be the MOST powerful thought there is.

I have a dwarf who made an artifact, had a kid and achieved his lifelong dream of making a masterwork, but NONE of that compared to how much he missed the 15th nephew down the list of his gigantic family.

Talking to the family they do have also means nothing. Nor does getting out of jail for all the attempted murder they engage in because dwarves can't write letters.

[Ives]

This happens all the time in reality, why's it ridiculous?

It just inconsistent that a dwarf can bounce back after many, many, many traumatizing events, but can never get over missing a loved one.

And if a dorf misses them in such logic-defying fashion, it would make more sense for him to just...leave and go back, instead of grabbing a chair and caving in someone's skull, or jumping off a cliff. Furthermore, why would he make a decision to seek his fortune in your fort in the first place?

[GavJ]

it would make more sense for him to just...leave and go back

That's a good point. It would be pretty cool in general if people did thematically appropriate reactions for different thoughts, but might be way more work than it's worth.

[Dirst]

That's a good point. It would be pretty cool in general if people did thematically appropriate reactions for different thoughts, but might be way more work than it's worth.

"What do you mean the miners unionized?"

[neblime]

some more info on this - I've started a fort where literally every migrant (except the starting 7) has at LEAST 5 of these thoughts, I am on an isolated island far away from the civ although i'm not sure thats related.  With the new way unhappiness works (i.e. with the depression etc rather than just straight up insanity) I manage to stay alive, but the number of fist fights is ridiculous, at 50 dwarves literally half of them were in hospital.
The good news is that EVENTUALLY these thoughts go away, depending how many relatives the dwarves have, as long as they survive the tantrum storm that happens with each migrant wave.
It doesn't seem possible to actually compensate for this unhappiness, even those who make artifacts or have children are still stressed