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Author Topic: Let's play Simutrans Pak128 - A song of beer and milk.  (Read 10891 times)

Aseaheru

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Re: Let's play Simutrans Pak128 - mmm Profits! -
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2014, 09:20:43 am »

It was carried by rail whenever it wasent carried by boat, for the reason that its heavy.
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Djohaal

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Re: Let's play Simutrans Pak128 - mmm Profits! -
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2014, 03:20:20 pm »

I'm not saying coal isn't profitable at all, but that your margin is too low what slows initial expansion  a lot. If I invested my starter 500k into a coal line I'd not have such a high return in my investment (I made 200k on 1930, over 1 million already in 1931 already)

So to maximize our profits, I hooked up passengers and mail to the dairy.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Intra-city linking is easy because the city is so small, a single stop that covers both the dairy and all the houses will automatically suppy the passengers to it as they arrive at the stop and immediately get "delivered" to the dairy. You don't get income for that though. The dairy has a second city linked to it, so I proceeded to make a small bus and mail line:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Vroom vroom! I plopped -both- a mail and passenger stop since i have separate halt capacities on, so each station has separate capacities for mail, freight and passengers, which in turn needs different stations/stop tiles. By 1950 a double pax-mail stop should be invented.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And here we can see the dairy consumer rate has raised already. There are two tiny icons near the picture which show it is being supplied by mail and passengers. When supplying a factory the frequency of vehicles is more important than net transport, so I didn't tell my busses to wait for a minimum load.



I did a similar process on the cattle farm as now we were out-consuming the milk. Needed to build a road branch to link to the town. Here the graphs show the production increase on both industries. There are other display options so you can track how effective your boost is by turning on the max boost % and boost % for a given booster (pax, mail or power)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The result however is that we are at a loss with trucks (you can filter the budget to the related transport modes), but the train boost more than repays for that. Most of my games I lose a lot of money with trucks but indirectly recover it via trains or airplanes.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And here's our line with a whooping 15 trains!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

After that I proceeded to expand to the glass mill nearby (not really near). It has a lot of suppliers around it, and is linked to both the dairy and a brewery in a city nearby. Obvous next step is obvious.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Our abundant lakes allows for a boat route to bring sand from the easternmost sand quarry. Curiously simutrans have no objections with boats moving uphill, but I'm not, so I built a couple of boat bridges which happen to come with locks. Looks a bit more realistic.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

View of the area near the glass mill. I built a channel connecting the lakes and then on that river.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now look how cheap an eaglescliffe bulk hauler is, just 34k! too bad it is so slow. I ended up buying some 10 of them.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

For hauling coal the monstrous VSYS 3-segment locomotive is doing a reasonably good job, a bit slow (45km/h) but since we don't have speed bonus, it doesn't matter much financially (only matters if you want things hauled faster)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And here we can see simutrans also has no strong objections against ships violating the pauli exclusion principle...
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 04:43:56 pm by Djohaal »
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I really want that one as a "when". I want "grubs", and "virgin woman" to turn into a dragon. and monkey children to suddenly sprout wings. And I want the Dwarven Mutant Academy to only gain their powers upon reaching puberty. I also have a whole host of odd creatures that only make sense if I divide them into children and adults.

Also, tadpoles.

Djohaal

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Re: Let's play Simutrans Pak128 - A flood of milk. And bosonic ships.
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2014, 04:06:11 pm »

Continuing our expansion, I made a double-rail line all the way from the glass mill to Las Vegas and then to our dairy.



Protip: Control + click on signals lets you set the interval between them, now you can drag-and-drop to auto-signal long portions of tracks. I usually employ one signal every 5 tiles, not too expensive, not too far apart.



And here we see our boson ships arriving with sand!



This monstrous 4-engine train is one of the few things that can haul a significant ammount of glass around with a reasonable speed. Glass is the heaviest peice goods I think.



And here's the importance of having a maximized, stable line before expanding. Wibbly profits all around from tuning the lines and initial hauls for factories.



My next step was linking the brewery with the supermarket. For our luck we already covered 4/5ths of the way there with our milk line...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also we needed grain to brew the beer, one of the farms is reasonably close and I could link it either with trains or ships. I opted for ships to ease the train overload on the milk rail.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I like the tractor for hauling grain as again it doesn't have much of a speed bonus, and it can haul comparatively a lot (twice as much as the best simple trucks)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And here they go. The reason I didn't demolish that field on the way is that farms and treefarms have their output linked to how many fields there are around them. They expand slowly once linked though.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

One of the dangers of having your supply and output arrive on the same line is a gridlock because the factory is out of supplies, in this case, coal. I had to add a few extra platforms and a platform choose signal to streamline it and reduce the chance of a gridlock, but it still may happen unless I come with another solution another boat line to supply coal would solve this issue, for instance.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here's how I linked las vegas. The station control building is only aesthetic. I used the station sprawl exploit to cross the road though.

You can see the arriving line has a platform choose signal, while one of the platforms has a end-of-plaftorm choose signal. The reason for doing this is that it excludes that specific platform from the search, so only lines you tell to stop there in their schedule will stop. The glass supply arrives there, while the grain gets hauled on a tiny leg via tractors too. The outgoing track acesses both directions because the glass trains stop here and then go south to deliver stuff to dairy.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Our dairy wasn't in a pretty situation though, becuase we have 3 lines passing trough this crossing:

1: the milk line itself

2: the glass supply which comes from the glass mill, stops at las vegas and then goes to the dairy to deliver the remaining glass.

3: the beer line that goes all the way down to the supermarket! - Beer production rates are insane too, I'm at 11 trains and the brewery is still overflowing.

The solution was to optimize some of the bottlenecks at the crossing. I improved the acess for the milk haulers with that loop near the road, and added a bypass for the beer.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I had to include a waypoint for the beer route because simutrans trains can be a bit dumb and not pick the best route.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And here we can see it running like clockwork. I should do some youtube vids of playing.

Our next challenge is increasing the speed on the milk line again. Because now we are sharing the fast milk line with a slower-moving line for delivering beer, our speedbonus is down and our profits aren't as good as they should be.
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I really want that one as a "when". I want "grubs", and "virgin woman" to turn into a dragon. and monkey children to suddenly sprout wings. And I want the Dwarven Mutant Academy to only gain their powers upon reaching puberty. I also have a whole host of odd creatures that only make sense if I divide them into children and adults.

Also, tadpoles.

Girlinhat

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Re: Let's play Simutrans Pak128 - A song of beer and milk.
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2014, 05:22:42 pm »

How can you tell what goods have a speed bonus, and how much, and whatnot?  In fact, how can you tell the stats on goods in general?

tryrar

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Re: Let's play Simutrans Pak128 - A song of beer and milk.
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2014, 10:06:40 am »

Shift+g
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This fort really does sit on the event horizon of madness and catastrophe
No. I suppose there are similarities, but I'm fairly certain angry birds doesn't let me charge into a battalion of knights with a car made of circular saws.

Djohaal

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Re: Let's play Simutrans Pak128 - A song of beer and milk.
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2014, 04:31:30 pm »

Now that we more-or-less have two stable and profitable lines, we can take the risk of starting a pax line.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The area near our sand quarry seems interesting, it has several small cities laid on a loop, plus a large city which can act as the anchor for this transit node.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ploink. Loop laid.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

For the smaller cities I built stations near the town hall and employed some station sprawl with parking lots. Also each station has a station building because we have separate halt capacities, and the default platform doesn't handle mail. Those stations are very expensive, almost doubled my monthly maintenance.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here's the hairpin station in London, also overview of our profits as of late.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A cool feature of the latest builds is the smart hide for objects, this makes plopping stuff on crowded city centers a breeze.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Overview of our bus coverage. - For the line itself I just did a counter-clockwise loop. Needed a ton of busses because the last stop before the rail node was the big park which produced a ton of passengers.

And here's one of the reasons simutrans being fully 3d (internally) is so cool:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Our busses come trough that road near the atomium and have to take an awkward route to stop on the rail station and then back downtown.

I plop a bridge there and...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Voila! We can place a stop immediately above our rail station and it'll link. I shifted the line schedule and now the convoys move on a nice optimized loop.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And here's hour RVG-runner already turning a humble profit. You can see we have a lot of passenger flow even for the small towns, enough to almost fill one train. As we increase this network the demand will steadly rise.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Schematic view of the lines.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My next idea is to expand southward towards Yarmouth which is another big city. It'll require another train line and a ferry connection (or a very long bridge).

Also I'm considering posting without spoiler tags. Any objections?

Girlinhat: Shift+G as tryar said, there's a list button up there that most people ignore, has a couple of interesting data lists
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 04:23:05 pm by Djohaal »
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I really want that one as a "when". I want "grubs", and "virgin woman" to turn into a dragon. and monkey children to suddenly sprout wings. And I want the Dwarven Mutant Academy to only gain their powers upon reaching puberty. I also have a whole host of odd creatures that only make sense if I divide them into children and adults.

Also, tadpoles.

Girlinhat

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Re: Let's play Simutrans Pak128 - A song of beer and milk.
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2014, 04:47:31 pm »

What year are you, and how long are you waiting between expansion projects?  I'm unable to do anything short of like 5 years wait time...

ALSO: I think you've got it easier thanks to the enormous map.  Stations are the biggest money sink, and rails are relatively inexpensive to maintain.  You've got a TON more rails than stations, as you're crossing hundreds of tiles and my maps are usually like 50-100 between industries.  The longer distance generates a lot more profit for delivery at the cost of increased upkeep for rails - but you get more per-tile delivery than you spend in per-tile rail.

tryrar

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Re: Let's play Simutrans Pak128 - A song of beer and milk.
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2014, 04:55:05 pm »

So I take it an express line between to largish cities with no stops between doesn't make money?
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This fort really does sit on the event horizon of madness and catastrophe
No. I suppose there are similarities, but I'm fairly certain angry birds doesn't let me charge into a battalion of knights with a car made of circular saws.

Djohaal

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Re: Let's play Simutrans Pak128 - A song of beer and milk.
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2014, 04:56:32 pm »

I am in 1935, bear in mind I'm using 21 bits per month, so my month duration is also longer. I've played the equivalent to 20 years in 19 bit I think... The larger map also helps due to the station-to-rail ratio indeed.

An express route between two large cities without an adequate coverage of the city itself (or its satellite towns) is a surefire way to go bankrupt. This isn't OTTD.
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I really want that one as a "when". I want "grubs", and "virgin woman" to turn into a dragon. and monkey children to suddenly sprout wings. And I want the Dwarven Mutant Academy to only gain their powers upon reaching puberty. I also have a whole host of odd creatures that only make sense if I divide them into children and adults.

Also, tadpoles.

USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Let's play Simutrans Pak128 - A song of beer and milk.
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2014, 04:59:49 pm »

So I take it an express line between to largish cities with no stops between doesn't make money?

From what I've understand of Simutrans's system, for a successful passenger moving system you want a ton of connections as opposed to just one small one. Passengers spawn with destinations in mind, so the more places you cover the more people that will travel on your lines and the more profitable it'll be. Relatively speaking, of course.
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Sheb

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Re: Let's play Simutrans Pak128 - A song of beer and milk.
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2014, 05:06:00 pm »

PTF
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Let's play Simutrans Pak128 - A song of beer and milk.
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2014, 05:09:57 pm »

ptw
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Aseaheru

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Re: Let's play Simutrans Pak128 - A song of beer and milk.
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2014, 07:38:32 pm »

Having no spoilers would be a pain.
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martinuzz

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Re: Let's play Simutrans Pak128 - A song of beer and milk.
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2014, 10:15:01 am »

Indeed. Not only does it exhaust scrolling muscles, it also kills loading times for people with lower internet connections.
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tryrar

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Re: Let's play Simutrans Pak128 - A song of beer and milk.
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2014, 06:47:10 pm »

could you do us a favor and explain what the station sprawl exploit is? I can't find anything online about it...
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This fort really does sit on the event horizon of madness and catastrophe
No. I suppose there are similarities, but I'm fairly certain angry birds doesn't let me charge into a battalion of knights with a car made of circular saws.
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