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[zombie urist]

Hm.m.mm. I don't think lynching Cheetar is a good idea since he claimed third party and I believe him and he isn't doing anything thats particularly anti-town. If someone can get him Jim's role that lets him win we can get rid of him that way.

I don't really have much else to go on so I suppose a mastahcheese lynch is best. I know I said he was probably town before but thinking about it now I really dislike the give-up attitude in the most recent post and thinking about it further his gambit could have been trying to get a strong town player to kill himself.

I'm kinda ambivalent on the everyone-wins situation. I don't really think we have enough time esp now that Persus is requesting a replacement and Vector and Tiruin aren't all that active.

[Superblackcat]

MastahCheese: I'd actually prefer a vote for TDS as opposed to you, because his low bother attack of you is more scummy than your shit play. But You still give off a pretty strong 'scum' vibe. It's just too strong for me to really want to vote you I guess.

Jack AT: Persus if mastahcheese flips scum because I'm not voting mastahcheese and instead voting TDS because, in large part, of what Persus said. I agree with his reasoning. But if mastahcheese is actually scum... Persus seems like the most possible partner I guess. Maybe Vector. Vector seems to be wary of jumping on the mastahcheese band wagon, while trying not to appear to be so.

[Vector]

I'm not "wary of jumping on the mastahcheese bandwagon." I'm wary of bandwagoning in general and I don't want to attack anyone until I've finished thinking about Shakerag's massclaim "everyone wins" request. Also, mastahcheese hasn't really done anything scummier than 4maskwolf, and the one I really want to vote for is you--so I'm piecing together my feelings on all of this.


As far as why I think it's a townfight, it's because both people have a sensible claim that they're not backing down on, in which both parties are attacking emotionally. Defending emotionally: usually scum. Attacking emotionally: usually more of a town thing to do. And, in particular, I feel like most other players are lurking in the background, without any commentary. Some of us are just kind of sick of the game (already) (somehow), while some of us are, I think, scum... and perhaps some others are, like myself, trying to figure out what to do with all of this.

I'm interested in Tiruin's commentary on the proceedings.

[Cheeetar]

What was 4maskwolf's 'sensible claim', Vector? How can you see his posts as anything other than an emotional defense?

[Jack A T]

I hate to say this, but I'm extending.  Day ends in just over 12 hours otherwise.  We still have much to do. (Unfortunately, there are too few people actively playing at this point.)  When we want to end the day, we can tell SBC to lynch (he'll probably obey, considering how he's acted today).

Jack A T: How about you get on the "let's get everyone to win together" train?

Shakerag: It would be tough with the lack of people, I'm guessing.  Also important: nobody is likely to jump on the train until there's more than just a locomotive.  To get this to work, there needs to be some agreement among the players to claim.  On the other hand, victory is good, and something like this could get rid of the general confusion and malaise that is killing this game.  I'll continue to think about this, but I have no solid position yet.

Let's just say that you should think VERY carefully and choose to lynch whoever the majority wants to lynch today.

Basically, I'm just assuring that you side with the town.  Sorry it had to be you.

4maskwolf: Interesting conflation of the majority and the town.  How safe do you feel in treating the judgment of the majority as the judgment of town?  Also, do you know anything about what the nuke does?

4maskwolf: Answer this.

This is a bit of a stretch, but here's my reasoning: An ability with unknown effects likely screws with somebody- it wouldn't be purely beneficial in a bastard mod. Scum would be able to fire and forget without worrying as much about the consequences as town- less chance of friendly fire, so to speak. Generating chaos is more pro-scum than pro-town.

Cheeetar: Interesting.  Do you believe 4maskwolf's rage was real?  If not, why?  If you do think it was real, how much thought do you think 4maskwolf put into considering the possible results of the ability use?  In addition, you recently indicated an intent to look back and find other suspicious people.  Who, aside from 4mask and SBC, do you suspect?

I expected that I would get clearer results from flabort or that he would say something scummy. In the first case, it's helpful because we get flabort's reads. In the second, it's helpful because we get a better read on flabort.

TheDarkStar: And what sort of response would you have considered scummy?

[4maskwolf]

Bluh.  Sorry Jack.

From what TolyK said to me in a pm, I just assumed that the town was, at the very least, a plurality over any individual anti-town faction.  Additionally, since many anti-town factions want each other dead, even if the town isn't a majority it is likely that there is enough animosity between anti-town factions that a majority could be reached.

However, it was mostly just me conflating the two in my head, since every game I have played has followed that principle.

[Cheeetar]

This is a bit of a stretch, but here's my reasoning: An ability with unknown effects likely screws with somebody- it wouldn't be purely beneficial in a bastard mod. Scum would be able to fire and forget without worrying as much about the consequences as town- less chance of friendly fire, so to speak. Generating chaos is more pro-scum than pro-town.

Cheeetar: Interesting.  Do you believe 4maskwolf's rage was real?  If not, why?  If you do think it was real, how much thought do you think 4maskwolf put into considering the possible results of the ability use?  In addition, you recently indicated an intent to look back and find other suspicious people.  Who, aside from 4mask and SBC, do you suspect?

I believe 4maskwolf was angry- it certainly isn't out of character for him, and I can't imagine him posting in that way voluntarily were he not upset. I also believe that he's canny enough to be able to channel those emotions productively towards his goals. He activated the lever within a fairly short time of receiving it (~40 minutes?), after first stating he wouldn't use it and then changing his mind. He clearly considered it a bit- not sure how indepth.

I'm looking ill upon Zombie Urist- he's been very unengaged in the game since he replaced in. I don't like Varee's play- he's claimed a third party with weird wincon like me, but I'd still rather he engaged himself than used it to excuse him not contributing. Surprisingly: Toaster went hard after me when I claimed, but doesn't care about Varee at all?

Fairly soft targets, so far. I'm not seeing anything that really perks my scum-o-meter.

[zombie urist]

Additionally, since many anti-town factions want each other dead, even if the town isn't a majority it is likely that there is enough animosity between anti-town factions that a majority could be reached.

How do you know this.

[Cheeetar]

Interesting catch, ZU.

4maskwolf: What are the anti-town factions?

[4maskwolf]

Additionally, since many anti-town factions want each other dead, even if the town isn't a majority it is likely that there is enough animosity between anti-town factions that a majority could be reached.

How do you know this.

Cult, mafia, and sk all want each other dead, along with any other instances of their own type not in their particular alliance.  Within the context of a normal mafia game, at least.

Note the use of the word "likely".  I am making an assumption here.

Interesting catch, ZU.

4maskwolf: What are the anti-town factions?

Possible anti-town factions: cult, sk, mafia, lynchers and assassins targeted at townies, allies and brothers of the above, and outsiders whose wincons conflict with the town wincon.

[4maskwolf]

EBWOP: "...targeted at townies, outsiders whose wincons conflict with the town's, and allies and brothers of the above"

Switched the wording around for clarity, I only remembered the outsiders a few seconds before hitting post and quickly made the correction.

[TolyK]

Day's been extended to Tuesday.

[Toaster]

4mask:  Hold up.  You go over all the bog-standard 3rd parties, and totally fail to mention Shakerag/Anti-Shakerag?  I don't get it, and I'm not sure I buy it.  That was a total form-letter answer, and not one you really meant.

[4maskwolf]

4mask:  Hold up.  You go over all the bog-standard 3rd parties, and totally fail to mention Shakerag/Anti-Shakerag?  I don't get it, and I'm not sure I buy it.  That was a total form-letter answer, and not one you really meant.

My wincon says nothing about anti-shakerag: it merely states that all anti-town factions must be dead (and that's all it states, obviously TolyK decided not to use the standard definitions provided by Wuba in the BYOR's).  As such, playing to my wincon does not include playing the whole Shakerag/anti-Shakerag game.  Yes, anti-Shakerag's are annoying to me as a Shakerag, but with the nights currently shut down and the relative difficulty in killing me I plan on staying alive long enough to accomplish my ACTUAL wincon rather than messing with the bastard elements of the game.

[Cheeetar]

4maskwolf:

In fact, you have three real votes that you haven't used- any explanation for your votes not being worth nothing compared to the kings? Any explanation for you being unwilling to use them to secure the lynch as the majority wishes it, instead of threatening to kill SBC instead?

They're visible in the start of day votecount, so they can be used (mine wasn't, for example).