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[Jim Groovester]

Jim Groovester: Why are you willing to give the Cheeetar victory role to someone willing to give the role to Cheeetar?  Do you think the risk is likely only to the giver of the role?

I'm actually willing to give it to whoever wants it. The role does nothing for me since I'm not Cheeetar so anybody can have it as far as I care.

I suspect that the penalties are only for the giver of the role or Cheeetar or both, if only because it would be really bastardy to have it any other way.

Everyone: Reads?  I was going to ask specific people for their reads, but the list of people I wanted reads from grew and grew as I prepared my reads post.

I'll get to these later.

[Tiruin]

I'll be getting back into here...soon. Stuff happened. No I'm not requesting replacement (because it'll be the very same thing for the other person--having to grab this burden I'm carrying)

[Toaster]

That fixed it for me.

[Toaster]

Holy crap, wrong thread.

[Toaster]

Cheeetar:

Toaster: Please answer this?

I'm town.

Oh, shit. That's weird- I'd already unvoted you and changed my vote to Toaster. It's not shenanigans on my side. Anything in your role(s) that might screw with votes that way, SBC, Toaster?

Nope.


Jack:

*Mastahcheese: Tried to kill Toaster, veteran and hammerer, in a highly disruptive way because RVS.  Is currently trying to say this is justified because discussion.  Scum read.

Why do I feel buddied here?

Cheese: So, just to be clear: You set Toaster (a skilled veteran) up to kill himself and actively disrupted day play for an extended period of time to make sure that he would shoot, just because you didn't like one of his RVS answers.

Probably because it's the second time you've done this.  Step off my nuts, bro.


Jim: Give the role to whoever is about to be lynched.  That way we can verify its existence.


A bit torn on who to vote here.  Cheeetar's a claimed non-town with no reason to believe he's helpful to town in any way.  Cheese tried to kill me because he didn't like an RVS answer, which is a straight-up Webadict move.  I'd be happy to see either hang right now, but I believe more digging needs to be done.

[Shakerag]

Jim Groovester:

There's a rather severe warning that I should not give the role to Cheeeeetar.

So ... any specifics to this warning?  Especially in regards to consequences? 

[4maskwolf]

Everyone: Reads?

Sure.  I blatantly stole the formatting from you, but the reads are my own.

*Shakerag: I really don't have enough information to tell.  Went for the lazy vote on me for having "the Shakerag" in the name of my role and claiming as such.  Neutral read leaning very slightly scummy, I'll try to figure out what's bothering me about him.
*Cheeetar: Active, gets people talking.  Claimed third-party at the beginning of the game and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
*GayArchaea: Erm... null
*Flabort: I don't trust Flabort at all.  Has an extremely unusual role that supposedly gives others new roles, which in and of itself is bothersome to me.  Has claimed third party.  Mild scum read, partly due to sending Jim Groovester two roles while saying one was randomized: that set off the "team alert" warning in my head.  I'm not saying they are a team, but it certainly perked my ears up.
*Vector: Null, has been inactive for good and sufficient reasons.
*Varee: Heh.  Varee... I've never been able to read Varee very well, so a neutral read for now.  I'll try to get more in-depth later, but Varee doesn't have enough content-stuffed posts yet for me to really get a good read.
*Tiruin: Has been absent.  Null.
*Jim Groovester: Is an interesting case.  Normally I'd say neutral to slight town, as he hasn't done anything to set off any alarm bells.  However, I'm going to have to give him a pure neutral read due to Flabort setting off an alarm which has implications on Jim's status.
*Toaster: Toaster... is being very Toaster this game.  Certainly not as reserved as I've seen him when he's playing scum, and is very much using his typical logic around third parties.  Neutral read.
*Persus13: I'm not sure what to make of Persus: few posts, one vote.  I can't fault him for his vote, as his argument certainly has merit.  Neutral read pending further posting.
*Jack A T: Makes occasional big, content filled post interspersed with smaller answer posts when asked questions.  Has been active in questioning people.  Slight town read for now, until I read back over the thread.
*TheDarkStar: This is where things get tangled, with TDS Cheese and SBC.  I really need to go back and read through again, but right now I view him as slight scum, partly due to trying to get a role which gave him a kill.
*Mastahcheese: I'm honestly not sure on this one.  Gave Toaster a "kill" because he had a suspicion and then tried to bait Toaster into shooting it.  That doesn't exactly seem like a town thing to do to me.  Slight scum read, but there's a part of me that understands the logic behind his tactic.
*Superblackcat: Neutral to slight scum read, the way he's been acting is bothering me slightly for reasons I can't put a finger on.  I'll go back and take a look.

[mastahcheese]

Reads:

-Shakerag: Shakerag. He needs to die, according to the game, so clearly he must not.
Haven't really formed an opinion on him.
-Cheetar: Cheeeeeetar is an odd case to me. The fact that he now has a role out there that makes him win means that he really doesn't need to do anything other than try to get his grubby paws on it, so I'm calling him third party for now.
-Jack A T: Fuckin' Jack. You do seem to be trying to hunt scum and call out bullshit, though. Town lean.
-GayArchae: Is he even playing?
-TheDarkStar: Seems to say he understands me for some reason. I don't know how he could. Flabby seems to be tying him to me, so I don't think it really matters if I say scum or town lean, but I'm kinda leaning Shakerag.
-Flabort: Is trying to link peeps together into scum teams, so I don't think he's scum himself. Just a hunch. 
-Vector: Is dealing with life. Null.
-Varee: I have no damn idea where to put you. You make no sense to me. Third party twit.
-Tiruin: *Hugs*
-Jim Groovester: This shitlord. Railing on me for not-shooting-but-instead-making-them-shoot-themselves. Lean shitlord.
-Toaster: Lawls.
-Persus13: Not sure if scumhunting, or simply looking for suspision bait. Hmm.
-4maskwolf: I really don't know what to say on you. For some reason, the stuff you post doesn't stick in my head very well. Hmm.
-SuperBlackCat: Ooooh, so now you don't like me, huh? You're ok with me giving out guns, but not when the guns are American made?
You waffler, you.

[Persus13]

Persus13: Why specifically ask me for reads?

Because I tend to expect a lot of quality content from you, and asking you for reads is a cheap way of seeing how you currently think about and are interacting with other players.

Reads of my own:
Shakerag: Unsure about him, he seems to be playing oddly, but that seems normal for him.
Cheeetar: Has claimed he is not town, but is playing like one. If I didn't know he didn't have a town wincon I'd say he was one. Slightly suspicious because third parties can rarely be trusted.
Jack A T: Solid town read as usual, so I don't trust it. Toaster's buddying accusation is interesting.
GayArchea:
TheDarkStar: Defending mastahcheese earlier, now voting him. Need to look into him further.
Flabort: Seems more interested in his role abilities then in actual scumhunting, but I hope to see more from him later. Unsure, I thought he was less confident when town but more confident when scum, but got proved wrong in NSBM. Slight scum read?
Vector: Seemed unusually suspicious of things early on, but that might just be differences in Mafia culture
Varee: Needs to clarify some of his statements about shakerags. Terrible at reading him.
Tiruin: She's playing?
Jim Groovestar: I'm surprised he hasn't voted me yet, considering past games with him. Seems town, but once again, as he is experienced, I don't trust that read.
Toaster: Buddying accusation towards Jack A T seemed slightly odd, but not really sure what to make of it.
4maskwolf: Should probably have mentioned the three votes thing sooner, but explained why he didn't well. From his phrasing he does not appear to be town.
Mastahcheese: More focused on gambits for some reason. Tunneling Toaster?
SBC: not much content, need to take a closer look at his posts.

I can't vote with my reason in the same post. I thought it odd that you hadn't revealed something that game-changing, especially as votecounts usually reveal that information anyways.

The fact that it could be game-changing is the exact reason I didn't want to reveal it.  Think about it this way: no matter which of the four main alignments I have (town, mafia, sk, cult), it's a good policy to keep a little something in reserve in case your team starts losing.  Had I not forgotten the fact (written directly in my role pm, so it's my fault for being stupid and not remembering and not the mod's fault) that it would be revealed in the votecount, I would have declared it up front.

Frankly, had it been kept a secret, I would prefer to never have to use it: that would mean that the game was finished before it got to the point where there were few enough players to matter.  If my team is winning, I'd never have to unveil it.  However, should I deem that my team, whichever that may be, is losing, I could bring out my triple vote as a game-changer.  I've well enough learned my lesson about revealing too much of my role (see: FHPBYOR.  Granted, the role I had was annoying as shit to everyone else, but still).

So you are not town?

[TolyK]

Archaea has been prodded, milord.

Were you nice about it?

Well, you know how it is with new technologies...

Still a note that the day ends Thursday, so make sure you're voting who you want to die!

[4maskwolf]

So you are not town?

I'm not entirely sure why you would say that.  I intentionally phrased it from the point of view of all of the main alignments because it is true for all alignments.  Just because town is uninformed doesn't mean I can't make an educated guess as to when the town is losing.

Shakerag is not, in fact, indicative of anti-town, because my main role has the words "the Shakerag" in it and is town. No, I can't prove I'm town short of inspects, I get it. I'll post more once I take the dog out.

[Persus13]

So you are not town?

I'm not entirely sure why you would say that.  I intentionally phrased it from the point of view of all of the main alignments because it is true for all alignments.  Just because town is uninformed doesn't mean I can't make an educated guess as to when the town is losing.

Shakerag is not, in fact, indicative of anti-town, because my main role has the words "the Shakerag" in it and is town. No, I can't prove I'm town short of inspects, I get it. I'll post more once I take the dog out.

Okay, you just didn't explicitly say you were town.

Also, I'm voting GayArchea because he's barely posted. Due to a lack of really scummy players (besides mastahcheese, but no one is currently defending him, so he might just be badly playing town), I would rather get rid of someone who hasn't been playing then people who are trying to contribute.

[mastahcheese]

Votecount, S'il vous plait, before I decide if I want to change it.

[Jim Groovester]

Jim: Give the role to whoever is about to be lynched.  That way we can verify its existence.

And lose out on taunting poor Cheeetar? I think not!

Also, it can be verified by passing it around freely.

Jim Groovester:

There's a rather severe warning that I should not give the role to Cheeeeetar.

So ... any specifics to this warning?  Especially in regards to consequences?

See for yourself.

Jim Groovestar: I'm surprised he hasn't voted me yet, considering past games with him. Seems town, but once again, as he is experienced, I don't trust that read.

I'm considering it because of your wimpy vote on an absent player.

Also, I'm voting GayArchea because he's barely posted. Due to a lack of really scummy players (besides mastahcheese, but no one is currently defending him, so he might just be badly playing town), I would rather get rid of someone who hasn't been playing then people who are trying to contribute.

What does people defending mastahcheese have to do with your opinion on whether he's town or scum?

*Flabort: I don't trust Flabort at all.  Has an extremely unusual role that supposedly gives others new roles, which in and of itself is bothersome to me.  Has claimed third party.  Mild scum read, partly due to sending Jim Groovester two roles while saying one was randomized: that set off the "team alert" warning in my head.  I'm not saying they are a team, but it certainly perked my ears up.

If flabort and I were on the same team I would've told him not to give me a role with an additional, required wincon no matter what else the role does, because that's more hassle than it's worth.

Reads:

Shakerag - Probably not-Shakerag. Kind of thin on posts. Nullish read.
Cheeetar - Claimed Shakerag miller, ergo, not-Shakerag. Is hunting and stuff.
Jack A T - Reads like Jack A T to me, which means he reads like town.
GayArchaea - Made a single post. Needs replacement and/or elimination.
TheDarkStar - Scummish for making wimpy FoSes and unFoSes. Low on noteworthy activity.
Flabort - Claimed Third Party. Gave me an additional, required wincon. Thanks, dude.
Vector - Hasn't played too much. Not enough to get a really solid read on.
Varee - I don't know what to make of this dude. Doesn't post much, votes seemingly randomly.
Tiruin - Has barely posted.
Jim Groovester - Town, handsome, brave, charismatic, etc.
Toaster - Reads like Toaster. Townish. Tried to kill Cheeeetar the non-Shakerag.
Persus13 - Kind of unnoteworthy. Plays like in the most recent Supernatural where he was scum, but that might just be how he plays in general. Scummish because of wimpy vote on GayArchaea.
4maskwolf - Claims to be a Shakerag. Also claims to be town. Currently no strong reason to believe otherwise. Townish read.
Mastahcheese - Scum, needs to die, etc. etc.
SuperBlackCat - Defended mastahcheese until he stopped defending mastahcheese. I don't know what to make of him.

[Cheeetar]

Cheeetar:

Toaster: Please answer this?

I'm town.

This is just weird. First you ignore the question, and now you're only pretending to answer it. The full question was:

Well, I'm glad I'm not dead. Toaster had a motive in trying to shoot me- what wincon do you have, Toaster, and how is it served by trying to kill somebody who is scumhunting? Surely, shooting anybody would give you more information on how Shakerag/Mafia works- why specifically me?

You're smart enough to know that I didn't just ask what your wincon was. Why is a townie killing scumhunters to learn more about the Shakerag/non-Shakerag dynamic? You claim to be motivated by my Shakerag miller claim, but if you're only interested in killing mafia (as a townie would be (?)), why are you aiming for me so viciously that it's a tossup between lynching me or the person who tried to kill you and everyone (sic) thinks is scummy?

This weirdness is turning my pressure vote into a real vote.

Spoiler: Reads (click to show/hide)

Shakerag: 1 RVS question (asking Vector if there are cult.) Claimed there are less Shakerags than non-Shakerags, but doesn't want to say why. Very reactive, pursuing no cases (iirc all his votes were single sentence and contentless)- reading as scummy.

Jack A T: Broad focus, good questioning. This was an odd post- he doesn't like secondary win cons. Still likely to be town.

GayArchae: He's posted once, and it was one sentence (two if you count 'PFP'). Null.

TheDarkStar: Odd overreaction to being questioned. "Un-FoSed" Jim, and tried very hard to divert attention from himself to Mastahcheese. Slightly scum.

Flabort: Interesting play with the gifting thing- not sure if I believe him on being third party. Might've claimed it just so mafia trust him more (?). Seems like an upstanding dude- at least, I'm not reading him as scum. Made promises and followed through.

Vector: Real life sucks. Hope it doesn't suck as much as it did prior to this post as it does after this post. Null.

Varee: Claimed to have a lot of information about the game (there are 16 players and 13 shakerags!)- and then, 'well I was just saying what if'. Grrr. Claimed investigator. Also claimed some people can be both Shakerag and Mafia at the same time. Wish we had this information from a more trustworthy person. Hasn't been scumhunting at all. Third party? Can't read him. Dunno.

Tiruin: Another victim of cruel, cruel real life- get better soon! Null read.

Jim Groovester: Good player, mostly focused on the whole mastahcheese debacle. Haven't seen any slips or suspicious behaviour from him. Should definitely give his giftable role to Cheeetar. Townie.

Toaster: Tried to kill me, the innocent clueless third party, for a bogus (or at least not fully explained) reason. Slipping into scum territory as he gets less transparent about his motivations.

Persus13: Weird post restriction, and two wincons. Not so much activity. Seems content to completely overlook everything happening with mastahcheese- thinks he's badly playing town. Slight scum read.

4maskwolf: Bit of odd rolefishing at the start. Three votes! Some interesting questioning, and decent-ish activity. Towny.

Mastahcheese: !!! gambitz !!! Went really overboard on the ~wacky shenanigans~ after giving Toaster his daykill. Made sense afterwards, but still doesn't justify trying to kill somebody because you don't like the cut of their jib Day 1, plus completely confusing everyone and clogging up the discussion. Scummiest. Would be voting if my vote wouldn't just be insult on top of injury- barring more shenanigans, he's gonna be lynched. (As an aside: If you're town, Mastahcheese, I am sorry. But don't play like that! Seriously. That kind of stuff does nothing to help town, and everything to hinder it.)

SuperBlackCat: Weird defense of Mastahcheese, but he turned on him pretty quick after reconsideration. Null read. Don't know how to see him.