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[webadict]

Pelsk
"Yes, oxygen.

What is this... "clawful"? It does not appear to be in the translator's vocabulary. The clawcraft was being pursuited by other aliens and sustained heavy damage before warping out and into this system. Where you aliens shot out its remaining engines, stranding it for good."

"It is a portmanteau in order to create a pun, a pastime we humans enjoy to the fullest and is probably one of the highest forms of humor."

[Skyrunner]

Pelsk

The alien opens his mouth, then after a bit of time shuts it. He seems to think.

"Is that all? Have you decided to relinquish your grasp on our property, or must we take it by force?"

[Tiruin]

What, you're going to send the impasser to the aliens? @.@

Planning to. :3


"Not the...most appropriate time for banter, Pelsk." Amelia pokes, during the intercomms. "Are you stalling or-...well. Ask about who shot at them? And please, this time inquire on how we can differentiate whom from who? I believe they think we're humoring them, despite this being a very delicate situation. Think of it like 'no man gets left behind', or such. That's why they're here, I believe.

"Also, pave the road clear: ask them if their scouts were the ones who killed our explorers? Try to emphasize the curiosity in your tone? The Kaa look like amiable folk. If they weren't the ones who killed our people anyway--we can't place unwarranted assumptions here. Be direct!"

[webadict]

Pelsk

The alien opens his mouth, then after a bit of time shuts it. He seems to think.

"Is that all? Have you decided to relinquish your grasp on our property, or must we take it by force?"

"Oh, the ship's having issues. According to our top engineers, the engines aren't working, so we're trying to make sure we don't accidentally send it into the sun. You know, gravity things. Complicated math. Way above us humans. But, we're sending it now."

Instruct my pilots to sloppily handle the craft and intentionally knock pieces off the craft on its flight back to the aliens. If possible, have them perform tricks on the way. Assuming I even have any pilots at my space docks. Which I don't. So, hopefully someone else does. Send the aliens footage of the tricks. Oh, and attach 20 or so nuclear warheads to the gunship.

What, you're going to send the impasser to the aliens? @.@

Planning to. :3


"Not the...most appropriate time for banter, Pelsk." Amelia pokes, during the intercomms. "Are you stalling or-...well. Ask about who shot at them? And please, this time inquire on how we can differentiate whom from who? I believe they think we're humoring them, despite this being a very delicate situation. Think of it like 'no man gets left behind', or such. That's why they're here, I believe.

"Also, pave the road clear: ask them if their scouts were the ones who killed our explorers? Try to emphasize the curiosity in your tone? The Kaa look like amiable folk. If they weren't the ones who killed our people anyway--we can't place unwarranted assumptions here. Be direct!"

"Why? They already think they're inferior, and they've already answered that question. Better for them to think we're idiots than for them to assume we're capable of anything worthwhile."

[Tiruin]

"Why? They already think they're inferior, and they've already answered that question. Better for them to think we're idiots than for them to assume we're capable of anything worthwhile."

"What?! How does that even get any understanding out of any- it's a first impression! What are you-Pelsk!"

Amelia instructs her Impasser to redirect and allow reclamation--to escort the wounded ship from being harassed at all back to the aliens.

Also turn my bloody communicator on, to the aliens! (and I edited my actions before)

"<Attention alien crew, I am Amelia Tenrin--Commander-in-chief of the philantrophic division, and you are free to retrieve your wounded vessel around the orbit of our planet. I have assigned one delegate to oversee this proceeds smoothly--any possible interference towards the safety of your crew and/or clawcraft is not the Council's will, but rogue elements.

"Though I am curious--if the Kaa are unified; why fire on unarmed explorers in order to kill, without warning or signal beforehand? Our records match color styles and weaponry similar to your people.>"

[webadict]

Spoiler: Pelsk, Cruaraea, Webadict (click to show/hide)

Province name: Cruaraea
Leader name: Commander Pelsk
Motivation: Money? Power? Secondary motivations, naturally. No, to be the forefront in the world is my natural motivation. Everyone remembers discoverers. Sure, there's money to be made in space as well as at home, but no one will forget my legacy as the Star Explorer!
Faction trait: Expeditious Fleet - I MUST be first!
Secondary trait: Friends In Low Places

Credits - 13
Income 109/turn
    Sol/Earth -- +60
   Friends In Low Places -- +30
   Pelsk Bravo/Vili -- +7
   Pelsk Charlie/Ve -- +7
   Sol/Jupiter -- +5
Control - 6/8
Production per turn: 3
Current fleet:
#3 - &Impasser - HP 3/3 (PartFutureSon)<no SuperLaser>
#5 - &Erinyes - HP 7/8 (Pelsk Alpha) [A] <no composites>
#7 - &Erinyes - HP 8/8 (Pelsk Alpha) [A] <no composites>
#8 - &Erinyes - HP 8/8 (Pelsk Alpha) [A] <no composites>
#9 - Colonizer Alpha - HP 6/6 (Earth docks)
#10 - Colonizer Alpha - HP 6/6 (Earth docks)

Murder the two Scouts that joined Pelsk Alpha.
Send Colonizers to Pelsk Alpha/Alpha and Beta.
Name Alpha Freyr and Beta Freyja.
Research Larger Ships II.
Scan Skies of Pelsk Echo.

[10ebbor10]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That's not ignoring the Trait. That's using it effectively. You get your money back after a certain time, but it's not being focused. Similarly, I don't focus on one thing either. You're right in that your Traits have an annoying interaction. This wouldn't be an issue if you had infinite research actions, I'm sure. But you effectively tuned a Trait to double the power of another Trait. No other Trait does that at all.
[/quote]
Yes, it means I can spend money to get more money. But with a different trait, I can spend less money to get more money in return. If there's another trait with does more than my trait can do, but better, then what is the point of having my trait in the first place?

But you effectively tuned a Trait to double the power of another Trait. No other Trait does that at all.

Points to First Rate Industries interaction with Greater Good. 

The rounding issue is annoying, I'll give you that. Perhaps that is something you could try to rectify. My suggestion would be to make it round up (Always get at least something even at .05). But that would probably be the only gain you'd get from the debate. It'd be a gain from the dual Traits. The issue with scaling bonuses is how hard they can break a game. Especially limitless ones. I would worry about that as a GM too.

The minimum I gain is always 1 credit, but that still means I waste loads of money.

I suppose I didn't mean to say you do nothing. You are interacting with the game. However, you might not want to focus solely on researching... unless that's what you want to do? I guess I'm not sure.

Yes, First Rate Industry might make colonizing broken. It might also not. Colonizable planets aren't unlimited. It could have the negative bonus not apply to Colonizers (Colonizers need a certain minimum health).

You do know this argument is getting old right? Yes, I could decide to not use my trait. But then what is the point of having it?

But, really, how long should it take to be cash positive? Just remember that double that turn is full return of investment. 15 turns? 10 turns? What is the limitations of your Trait? Does it scale infinitely? When should it pass another Trait? Compare your Trait to another Trait, since those will be unique to each player, and then show the math.

It should not be worse than what everyone else has as a basic game mechanic. At this point, the trait is pretty much redundant.

In addition, I showed my results quite often. Most other traits are just better. Especially if you include the fact that credits can be re-invested, which just showcases that all the front-loading traits are much better than whatever long run traits exist. I mean just look at the old Families trait, which gives a massive up front credit bonus. Build 2 colonies with that, and you have outdone your own trait, and still have 400 credits.

Front-loading is way over-emphatized in this game, and we really don't need to further nerf any long term strategies.

I think 12-14 turns is okay for cash positive. That means about 7-8% return. Round up each tech cost to Patents. Cap it at half of total income.

I must strongly disagree.

This avoids a lot of the issues a GM could have. It is annoying, but not blatantly overpowered. At max, you could have double income over another player, but it would take a while to get there. But, you did pay to get there.

It's massively underpowered, and practically useless, even more so in that variant. You're never going to get double income of another player, as you simply don't have the monetary reserves to do so.

Assume we only have Earth as a colonial base, so + 60 credits. In order to double that we need to invest, 1200 credits in research, and wait 20 turns. If the other player fails to make at least 4 colonies with that money, then he's not very competent. Especially as his colonies pay back their investment in as little as 4-6 turns.

For First Rate Industry, you could make sure Colonizers can't be reduced.

I suppose.

[RulerOfNothing]

Skyrunner, how big are the various spacecraft, and what size spacecraft will Larger Ships II allow us to build?

[Skyrunner]

@Ebbor: I can only offer rounding up the result. Or you could change your Patents to a different trait if you don't like that.

@RulerOfNothing: The tier one craft like M1a and Impasser are as big as a modern fighter craft. The tier two ones (eg Larger Ship I, such as Erinyes) are generally larger than that, perhaps four times volume. Larger Ships II will let you build, among other things, rudimentary orbital defense platforms, Colonizer Beta (unmanned colony but better), ships that are capable of using Kinetic Missile without being a floating shotgun, and stuff like that up to four times volume I suppose. I don't actually have a big list of ships I plan on introducing

edit: I imagine that you could probably start building ships that can transport a lot more goods. And Larger Ships III would probably let you start building both manned colonies and your first "capital" (as opposed to fighters) ship, the corvette.

[10ebbor10]

I'll take the rounding. Going to redo my turn however

[Skyrunner]

Year 4, Q3~4
Pelsk of Cruaraea
Because Pelsk's fleet was in the system first, they get to fire first on the scouts.

Erinyes #5 Tricap Railguns -- (4-2) * 4
The quad railguns of the Erinyes fire in rapid succession, knocking off a winglet, puncturing its engine, shattering the cockpit canopy, then finally hitting what seems to be the power source of the ship, causing it to explode.

Erinyes #7 Tricap Railguns -- (4-2) * 4
The same story is repeated with the second Alien Scout. The overwhelming firepower of the Erinyes gunship destroys the Alien Scout fairly quickly.

The pair of Colonizers detach from their berths and rocket towards Pelsk Alpha. After arrival, they plant themselves on Alpha and Beta respectively.

Money is put into Larger Ships II research, 30 credits.

(One cannot scan a system without a ship stationed there. It'll cost 30 credits with a Scout-type of ship, or 60 with any other ship, to scan, say, Pelsk Echo, because cost scales on distance from a manned colony and a penalty is charged if the ship isn't specialized for scouting.)

There is one star system accessible from Pelsk Echo, CastStepGrow, a mere 0.32 warp units away.

With an income of 139 and expenditure of 90, his net gain this turn is 49 credits.

Amelia of Kasselyn
Two Erinyes are produced for 80 credits and sent along with the existing two.

They warp into the system and meet two alien scouts. They attempt to signal the ship, using Earth language, but they ignore the message and engage.

The first scout fires antimatter missiles at ship#7, disintegrating it.
The second scout fires antimatter missiles at ship#8, which also blows up.
Erinyes#9 fires its railguns at the Scout; three shots are enough to dispatch it, and #10 also destroys the remaining scout.

Finally, a Colonizer Alpha is produced for 50 credits and delivered to ShortLastHigher, presumably colonizing ShortLastHigher Prime.

With 130 income, Amelia has a perfectly neutral income this turn.
Fletcher of Titanian Republic
The Colonizer en route to Olympus will arrive there next turn and colonize Beta. (the one mentioned in the turn doesn't actually exist)

A normal Erinyes is built for 40 credits and sent towards Olympus. It is now in Crowbar System.

Money is put towards Larger Ships II, 30 credits this turn.

The Scout in CSN starts flying towards Earth. It will take three turns.

Income is 75, for a net gain of 8 credits.
Zhakarov of Euroslavic Federation produces a Colonizer Alpha for 50 credits.

His labs finish up Larger Ship II research for 15 credits, gaining 1 credit towards Patents.
The year of concentrated research on creating ever larger ships has born fruit. Ships that can now be produced include the Pinion Orbital Defense Platform (depending on multiple Pinion Super Lasers to discourage hostiles), the Hercules transport/salvage ship, the Colonizer Beta (a faster Colonizer Alpha that spawns a +22 unmanned colony).

Better engines need to be invented for the ability to construct an Emer (light corvette) with a crew of twenty four, and a Turul (fast attack ship), a spiritual successor of the Ruhk, designed along the philosophy of "faster is better".

Money is put into Improved Point Defense, 15 credits. Plus one credit towards Patents.

Income of 90 credits means a net gain of 10 credits.

Kaa
Using tender spaceships from the orbital docks, the disabled clawship is roughly handled, coincidentally breaking off the less damaged engine, parts of the hull, and a shield generator. Sadly, no nukes are available in space, so that part of his orders is ignored. The clawship gets a boost towards the waiting aliens and their shuttle.

Amelia's Impasser helps tow the clawship towards the waiting aliens.

"<Though I am curious--if the Kaa are unified; why fire on unarmed explorers in order to kill, without warning or signal beforehand? Our records match color styles and weaponry similar to your people.>"

The alien makes a signal with his hand, and the shuttle starts lumbering towards the disabled clawship.

"Unification within does not mean a peace towards aliens. Additionally, I do not command the Expansionary Fleet. I am not privy to the rational behind commands."

The shuttle opens a door, and the clawship is tugged slowly but inexorably inside.

"We part in ... peace, 'humans'. We warn you to not cross the Kaa, for your deaths shall be swift and sure."

The shuttle turns, along with its screen of escorts, and winks out of realspace.


New ships:

Spoiler: Pinion Orbital Defense Platform-- orbital defense -- 100c (click to show/hide)

Orbital defense platform consisting of a small crew and eight laser emplacements. It can sustain a lot of damage but cannot leave a star system. Its size allows for all three defense systems to be mounted.
HP: 40/40
Engines: x2 Ion Pulse Drives
Speed: 0.05
Armor: +3 Composite Armor
Shields: +0.6 Prototype Shields
Point Defense: +2.0 2x650nm Point Defense System
Armament 1: x8 Pinion Weapons "Superlaser"
Cost: 100c

Spoiler: Hercules -- shuttle -- 50c (click to show/hide)

A large, lumbering shuttle that can load other ships into it, or salvage wrecks.  It requires escort as there is no space for defensive weapons.
HP: 10/10
Engines: x6 Ion Pulse Drives
Speed: 0.6
Armor: +2 Composite Armor
Shields: 0
Point Defense: 0
Cost: 50c

Spoiler: Colonizer Beta-- colonizer (unmanned) -- 100c (click to show/hide)

To better exploit the resources of the universe! Larger than the Alpha, it sports eight unstable rocket engines to go faster, and with its extra cargo space can create a +22 colony.
HP: 40/40
Engines: x8 Solid Rockets
Speed: 01.5
Armor: +1 Titanium Plating
Shields: 0
Point Defense: 0
Cost: 100c

New possible research

Capital Ships I	200 * 4
Larger Orbital Defense	100 * 4
Improved Missiles	40 * 6

Spoiler: Pelsk, Cruaraea, Webadict (click to show/hide)

Province name: Cruaraea
Leader name: Commander Pelsk
Motivation: Money? Power? Secondary motivations, naturally. No, to be the forefront in the world is my natural motivation. Everyone remembers discoverers. Sure, there's money to be made in space as well as at home, but no one will forget my legacy as the Star Explorer!
Faction trait: Expeditious Fleet - I MUST be first!
Secondary trait: Friends In Low Places

Credits - 62
Income 139/turn
    Sol/Earth -- +60
   Friends In Low Places -- +30
   Pelsk Bravo/Vili -- +7
   Pelsk Charlie/Ve -- +7
   Sol/Jupiter -- +5
   Pelsk Alpha/Freyr -- +15
   Pelsk Alpha/Freyja -- +15
Control - 4/8
Production per turn: 3
Current fleet:
#3 - &Impasser - HP 3/3 (Pelsk Echo)<no SuperLaser>
#5 - &Erinyes - HP 7/8 (Pelsk Alpha) [A] <no composites>
#7 - &Erinyes - HP 8/8 (Pelsk Alpha) [A] <no composites>
#8 - &Erinyes - HP 8/8 (Pelsk Alpha) [A] <no composites>

Spoiler: Zhakarov, Euroslavic Federation, ebbor (click to show/hide)

Province name: Euro-Slavic Federation
Leader name: Provost Zakharov
Motivation: To explore space to solve the question of the universe.
Faction trait: One Minute Into The Future
Secondary trait: Patents -- 5% of money spent on research rounded up is permanently gained as income.

Credits - 39
Income 90/turn
    Sol/Earth -- +60
   Sol/asteroids -- +5
   Patents -- +19
Control - 3/5
Production per turn: 2 ships
Current fleet:
#0 - &Scout M1a - HP 4/4 (ChooseSoldierNobody orbit)<no superlaser>
#1 - &Scout M1a - HP 4/4 (HatBeyondGreater solar orbit)<no superlaser>
#2 - Ruhk 1 - HP 4/4 (Earth docks)
#3 - Colonizer Alpha - HP 6/6 (Earth docks)

Spoiler: Amelia, Kasselyn, Tiruin (click to show/hide)

Province name: Kasselyn
Leader name: Amelia Tenrin
Motivation: Philosophical Unity and pursuit of truth.
Faction trait:
    Totalitarian   +10% passive income from colonies and Earth
Secondary trait:
    Friends In Low Places
Credits - 24
Income 130/turn
    Sol/Earth -- +60
   Friends In Low Places -- +30
   Pelsk Bravo/Vili -- +7
   Pelsk Charlie/Ve -- +7
   ShortLasterHigher/Prime -- +15
    Totalitarian -- +11
Control - 6/8
Production per turn: 3
Current fleet:
#3 - Impasser - HP 3/3 (Earth orbit)(unarmed)
#5 - &Colonizer Alpha - HP 6/6 (At Charlie, to Echo in 0 turn to colonize Alpha) <no composites>
#6 - &Colonizer Alpha - HP 6/6 (At Charlie, to Echo in 0 turn to colonize Beta) <no composites>
#9 - Erinyes - HP 8/8 (ShortLastHigher)
#10 - Erinyes - HP 8/8 (ShortLastHigher)

Spoiler: Fletcher, Titanian, RulerOfNothing (click to show/hide)

Province name: Titanian Republic
Leader name: Peter Fletcher
Motivation: To claim the riches of space for the good of humanity (but prioritising the people of the Republic)
Faction trait: First Rate Industry
Credits - 18
Income 75/turn
    Sol/Earth -- +60
   HatBeyondGreater/Prime -- +15
Control - 5/5
Production per turn: 2 ships
Current fleet:
#0 - &Scout M1a - HP 4/4 (Crowbar to Sol, 1 turn)<no superlaser>
#1 - &Scout M1a - HP 4/4 (ChooseSoldierNobody to Crowbar to Sol, 2 and 3 turns respectively)<no superlaser>
#3 - &Erinyes - HP 12/12 (Olympus orbit)<old railguns, no composites>
#4 - &Colonizer Alpha - HP 9/9 (crowbar, arrives at Olympus next turn) <no composites>
#5 - Erinyes - HP 8/8 (crowbar, arrives at Olympus next turn)

Spoiler: Star systems (click to show/hide)

(red is alien presence, blue alien traces)
Explored
Star System Sol
    Earth -- 60 resources per turn -- all factions
   Asteroids -- 5 resources per turn -- Zhakarov
   Jupiter -- 5 resources per turn -- Pelsk
   (one disabled Alien Ship)
   (4 Alien Interceptors, 1 Alien Shuttle)
Star System ShortLastHigher (discovered by multiple factions): One sun
    Prime -- 15 resources per turn -- Amelia
    (one Amelia M1a wreckage, two Amelia Erinyes wrecks)
Star System Crowbar (Discovered by Zakharov of ESFed): Two suns
    (no planets)
Star System Pelsk Alpha (discovered by Pelsk of Cruarea): One sun
    Freyr -- (unmanned) 15 resources per turn -- Pelsk
    Freyja -- (unmanned) 15 resources per turn -- Pelsk
    (Pelsk M1a wreck, Amelia Erinyes wreck, an Alien Scout wreck)
   (two Alien Scouts)
Star System Pelsk Bravo (discovered by Pelsk of Cruarea): Two suns
    Vili -- (unmanned) 15 resources per turn -- Pelsk
Star System Pelsk Charlie (discovered by Pelsk of Cruarea): Two suns
    Ve -- (unmanned) 15 resources per turn -- Amelia
   (one Alien Probe)
Star System Pelsk Delta (discovered by Pelsk of Cruarea): No sun
   asteroids
   (one Pelsk M1a wreckage)
Star System Olympus (first colonized by Fletcher): 1 sun
   Nox -- (unmanned) 15 resources per turn -- Fletcher
   Beta
Star System Pelsk Echo (discovered by Pelsk):
   Alpha
   Beta -- something strange?
Star System ChooseSoldierNobody (discovered by Zhakarov)
   Prime
Potential systems
Star System CastStepGrow

Researching technologies (also in second post)

Kinetic Missiles	2 turns
Improved Point Defense	1 turn

[10ebbor10]

Query: Can I retrofit a Colonizer Alpha into a Beta variant?
Query: Can an Alpha Colony be retrofitted into a Beta variant?
Statement: The Euroslavic Federation is always willing to consider doing research under commission of other parties. Adminstrative fees apply. All research property of the Euroslavic federation.
Statement: The Euroslavic Federation considers the current division of resources extremely unbalanced.

Production:
 - Ion Drives II [Slot hired by Pelsk]
 - Improved Point Defenses [slot hired by Fletcher]
 - [This slot for hire]

Movement:
 - Scout located at Olympus will move towards the Crowbar System
 - Colonizer alpha will be upgraded to Beta version, and will move towards "Vanguard", which is the new name for the ChooseSoldierNobody System

Spoiler: Budget (click to show/hide)

Credits - 39
Income 90/turn
   Sol/Earth -- +60
   Sol/asteroids -- +5
   Patents -- +19
Credit Transfer Pelsk: +22
Credit Transfer Fletcher: +22
Expenses:
- Colonizer Alpha Upgrade: -50
- Ion Drives II: -15
- Improved PD: -15

Spoiler: Off-topic Statement which I really should discontinue (click to show/hide)

We have 9 viable colony locations. Rounded down, that is 2 per player.

Our new colony vessel increases colonial gains by 7.5 credits per turn, for a total research cost of 120 credits.
So, 120+200 results in 15 additional credits per turn.

120 research investement => 60 research investement => (thanks to rounding up. Would have been 3 otherwise) 4 credits per turn.

But no, patents scales excessively.

[Skyrunner]

Yes, just pay the difference in price.
No, you need to land a Beta colonizer there.

[10ebbor10]

Yes, just pay the difference in price.
No, you need to land a Beta colonizer there.

Query: Do asteroids benefit from being upgraded?

[Skyrunner]

They benefit a tiny bit, going from 5 income to 6 income. Upgrading the technology itself is probably better.