Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Urist McScoopbeard]

I can't believe people are making such a huge deal about this game. Does it bother you that it is so unapologetic? Are you seriously trying to convince yourselves that this game doesn't speak to some of you? That's the real problem people have with this game, it's easy to lie to yourself and say it's "just a game" and "no big deal" when it isn't taken seriously, like GTA. But when a game actually reflects what it might be like to actually kill some people everyone gets all uncomfortable and butthurt about it.

People are so afraid of it because it challenges their world view and the lies they tell themselves about their own nature.

Your vehemence against those people who find brutal killing abhorrent offends me. There is a marked difference between when a game doesn't take it seriously, but ends up being known for it and the when the whole object of the game is to let you experience the wild throes of being a mass murderer. As for myself, I am against it. Not because I'm "trying to convince" myself of anything, but because I find it offensive to my morals. Perhaps your inner nature revolves around the slaying of others, but some people actually find the idea innately wrong.

and all arguments ad hominem aside, it doesn't look like any type of game I would enjoy, specifically in a philosophical way. I mean, geez, even in games like Fable I can't even bring myself to choose the "evil" options once in a while!

[Mictlantecuhtli]

So I assume you feel the same way about other games focused on mindless violence?

[Virtz]

Goat simulator.

The usage of the word "Simulator" is becoming rather abstract these days.

Only when used in the context of parody/humour. It's called irony.

[Leafsnail]

I do the same thing all the time in GTA.

To which the response is "That isn't as gory and detailed and doesn't have people screaming and begging and crying

To which my response is "That's the point, it's putting what we do in video games right in your face without any attempt to abstract  it out.  Like, we're not even considering the millions of people we murder in regular non-civilian shooters.  Soldiers cry and beg and scream too when they get shot."

Just so we can get that conversation out of the way right off the bat.

I largely agree and I can buy that for some videogames (eg Spec Ops: The Line, The Last of Us) but in this case the developer's have explicitly stated they're not trying to make a statement of that nature, they're just being as violent as possible because they can and they want to stick it to the "PC police".  If you want to claim you're just showing the consequences of violence then you have to show some real consequences rather than just offering people a power trip.

[Bohandas]

It's interesting how one game that boils down to "humans suck, kill them all" gets a lot of outrage for that fact, while another doesn't.
I guess it's less about the theme as such and more about how it's presented and the presence or absence of anything beyond that basic theme.

thats a 2d platformer with some bullethell?  Also it didnt have you directly killing any civilians as far as I saw.  Also it looked significantly more styled and its concept was peace through fear.  Forgive me for saying, but I think that game is nothing like this one.

Comparing some genetically-altered tentacle baby created to destroy the powerbase of militaries to create peace to walking outside to a completely low-fantasy world to kill passersby?

I do the same thing all the time in GTA.

To which the response is "That isn't as gory and detailed and doesn't have people screaming and begging and crying

Postal 2 does though, and you barely hear anything about that.

[Sirus]

Isn't Postal 2 also a game where you set people on fire by pissing on them? I swear that was a thing. Might have been something else.

[Fniff]

Same game, though you do need a cheat to enable that.

[Sirus]

Ah, okay. Cheats fall outside normal gameplay, so ignore me on that.

[Yoink]

I mean, geez, even in games like Fable I can't even bring myself to choose the "evil" options once in a while!

Ah, Fable, the good ol' spousal abuse simulator.
Now I want to get myself one of them old Xboxes to play that game again... I'd miss my save files, but alas.

[DoomOnion]

Ah, okay. Cheats fall outside normal gameplay, so ignore me on that.

Well, not really. You can literally pour a can of gasoline on a man begging for his life, light him on fire, and then piss on his burnt corpse.

[Cthulhu]

You don't need explicit intent from the developers to extract a message, and intentional messages tend to be hamfisted anyway (See: Pilgrim's Progress, Any time a video game has ever tried to send a message.)

I think abstracting it out to make it more "palatable" is worse, actually.  Showing this kind of stuff and letting people do it, I've been playing Mortal Kombat since Kindergarten and it hasn't affected me.

It's not the content of the violence, it's the results.  Every single one of the video games we've talked about and most of what we see on television too, no matter how "palatable" it is, involves characters using violence and getting positive results for it.   The message is that violence is a good thing that gets you what you want.  And that's why I don't buy this thing about how the player's agency is the difference between the low-fi isometric murder of Hatred and the very up close and human violence of movies like Saw and Hostel.  People got up and cheered in the theater in the bathroom scene at the end of hostile (where the protagonist gets revenge in a bathroom) and Jigsaw's reason for doing his shit is generally portrayed as a good thing (And I'll note it's just as high school as Grimdark Darkgrim's thing in Hatred)

[pisskop]

I mean, geez, even in games like Fable I can't even bring myself to choose the "evil" options once in a while!

Ah, Fable, the good ol' spousal abuse simulator.
Now I want to get myself one of them old Xboxes to play that game again... I'd miss my save files, but alas.

Fable was fun until you owned every house, and thought the only challenge left was to play with only a crossbow.  And I never did find punching your wife very fun.  Or husband.  I tried that, and it was even less fun.

Spells were the best in that game, tho, for playing around with civies.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Ah, okay. Cheats fall outside normal gameplay, so ignore me on that.

Well, not really. You can literally pour a can of gasoline on a man begging for his life, light him on fire, and then piss on his burnt corpse.

But it's "abstracted" [you only get a medium-fidelity first person view of murdering begging civilians, it's less hands on] and funny so it's not offensive, especially when all hostiles become Taliban with Bin Laden models

[Urist McScoopbeard]

So I assume you feel the same way about other games focused on mindless violence?

That depends on what you mean by mindless violence. I feel the same about postal games, although to a waaaaaaaay lesser extent. They don't wickedly offend me, but I don't find them to be expressively fun. GTA, Watch Dogs, and etc. though aren't always focused exclusively on death so I'm ok with them.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

GTA3 onwards are all games about mindless violence with a plot tacked on.