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Author Topic: How to Enjoy the Game Again?  (Read 2916 times)

dwarf_reform

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Re: How to Enjoy the Game Again?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2014, 10:25:27 pm »

Some scattered thoughts:

*Learning how to do basic raw modding (mostly just takes common sense and some wiki assistance) is quite fun.. This fort I've modded the cats to be war-trainable, the grand plan being to lever-release a grand horde of war-cats on some unsuspecting fools.. I'm also experimenting with catapults finally (for now the zombies easily avoid the projectiles.. I may chain a couple for a permanent target..

*What usually grinds me down is the "setting up".. The bedrooms, the stockpiles, the military, nobles.. If that sounds like part of it then maybe trying a series of less-than awesome forts may sound appealing.. Use one massive catch-all stockpile and a single shiny shared bedroom.. I've also had some good fun with embarking dwarves with nothing and seeing how long they can survive just milling around on the surface.. Right now in my current fort I've got a king who keeps crying for armor stands, and in response I've  just now started near-constant production of armor stands.. I plan on packing his (very large) bedroom so full he'll only have a path to his bed and table.. Another fun option is to lock a hand-picked group of dwarves away safely and then releasing the clowns on the rest of the fort..

*I too hit these same patches of disinterest in playing.. The best "remedy" I can offer is reading some community forts :> Those usually reignite that dwarven fire, one way or another.. A second option is to just go all-out with DFHack, changing whole layers into candy and turning your dwarves into speedy teleporting work-machines while abusing the placement of lava and water in any way you please.. Use lava to empty a river and then replace the contents with lava! Or useless megaprojects like trying to mine layers away all the way down to the first cavern layer, or building an outdoor fort down in a low channeled-out area and then (with all dwarves safely inside) pull the lever that lets the river submerge the fort..

*World-gen is a fairly rich playground itself.. Anything from highly hostile worlds all the way down to single-civ worlds with all the dangers turned off.. Messing with the settings I've been able to get all-ocean worlds that only have 1-10 tiles of dry land to generate, though no dwarves will show up without a reasonable mountain.. The erosion setting can create some different worlds also..

*I just had the thought that military dwarves should get strange moods when they've got a weapon claimed, and some improvements they could add to their weapons (serrated, blood-letting holes, double-edging, adding spikes or pommel guards, things like that.. Tis unrelated, haha..) Uh.. Pixel art? :> I've tried some, or some decorative carvings, but I haven't built a panel of wall-tiles just to create a pixel image yet, though.. For this being a block game I haven't seen much DF pixel art (or even artwork made by mining) over the years..

Anyway, have no fear, this is normal! Once you love DF the first time its too late, you're cursed for life, and its siren song will always call you home ;) Just bring a cat, because home is full of vermin..
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Blue_Dwarf

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Re: How to Enjoy the Game Again?
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2014, 08:26:17 am »

You make an interesting point - what if you're indeed playing it "wrong"?

By that, I mean "unfun" strategies, like walling in and doing stuff that never gets your dwarves horribly murdered. Try playing in a more risky manner, and see if you enjoy the pigtail sock chaos.
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InfiniteCastor

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Re: How to Enjoy the Game Again?
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2014, 09:58:05 am »

You make an interesting point - what if you're indeed playing it "wrong"?

By that, I mean "unfun" strategies, like walling in and doing stuff that never gets your dwarves horribly murdered. Try playing in a more risky manner, and see if you enjoy the pigtail sock chaos.

That's where things start to get tricky.

I've taken much of the advice that has come around, and, once again, thanks for all the help. I think I may have come across the definitive problem. To just try everything in a new way, I started a fort in Masterwork and made it rather solid, with a great agricultural surplus and a burgeoning industry. Then I had a revelation.

Throughout the approximately two-and-a-half year period that the fort existed, I had not been invaded once. The only megabeast I had was a Naga that did almost no damage. The problem was with the cavern creatures; they killed over ten dwarves during my time. Eventually, the game simply got boring. However, at the end of it all, I would not have wished even an ambush on the fortress on account of the military. A squad of six fighters with various pre-migration combat skills served as the militia, and the best of them were slaughtered by large snakes, despite their steel armour. One of them even suffered a minor hand injury after being shaken up by a giant mole. Worse yet, the ones that perished could not be replaced afterwards because a few months of training did not give any experience to the new (entirely green) recruits that I had selected to fill the squad back up, in spite of the fairly proven dwarves instructing them.

So, in light of all this, it appears that walling myself in my fortress is the only viable course of action. I can't understand it, as I've read community fortresses that raise dwarves to champion level after only a years' time and a siege or two, whereas my dwarves can't fight off cavern creatures with the best kind of equipment I can provide at the time. I want to be able to play liberally, but the game seems to be unwilling to let it happen.

If there's any way to remedy this, then I would stand another attempt. If not, I think I may very well just take a break and come back later on.
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pisskop

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Re: How to Enjoy the Game Again?
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2014, 10:01:32 am »

heh, this is sounding more like an existential crisis veiled every time I stop by.  It sounds like you should take everything we have said, take a few weeks to absorb it while doing something else, and then look at the new features, see if you can improve a design.

You cant beat the meta.  Stop it.
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InfiniteCastor

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Re: How to Enjoy the Game Again?
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2014, 06:05:24 am »

heh, this is sounding more like an existential crisis veiled every time I stop by.  It sounds like you should take everything we have said, take a few weeks to absorb it while doing something else, and then look at the new features, see if you can improve a design.

You cant beat the meta.  Stop it.

Will do, I suppose. Although given the fact that I seem to be the only player on the forums who has this problem, I think my error is in breaking the meta too much. :-\
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Ultimuh

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Re: How to Enjoy the Game Again?
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2014, 06:23:18 am »

I have the same issue. While I do like to play this game again, I keep hitting the same old wall.
Mostly because getting basic needs such as food, drink and beds for every single migrant is a droll task.
My fortresses barely reach the second year, have to be lucky to get to the third before everyone starves or dehydrates to death. (Tantrum spirals included.)
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Nikow

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Re: How to Enjoy the Game Again?
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2014, 01:46:40 pm »

I have the same issue. While I do like to play this game again, I keep hitting the same old wall.
Mostly because getting basic needs such as food, drink and beds for every single migrant is a droll task.
My fortresses barely reach the second year, have to be lucky to get to the third before everyone starves or dehydrates to death. (Tantrum spirals included.)
At start, bring some stone/wood with you, cut more trees and set everyone as carpentry to build 2 levels big wall. Then in data/init/dinit.txt you will set pop_cap, set it to 20 or something. Deal with basics on this fortress, just for food, drink, meybe some clothing. If you know basics and you feel them, breach cavern, seal it up. Get comfort with new situation, when shroom can grow everywhere. Avoid caverns, deep deeper, get some minerals, metals. Figure out how it works. Calm, slowly.

if you will feel comfort with things around, just make more worlds where you will try harder things, make better designs. Improve your skills.

and always choose some "your" dworfs, nickname them. Give them fate, extra miner, macelord.... Whatever you like, explore.

DF is a big tasty cake, just do not try eat it too fast, because you will vomit on the floor...
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pisskop

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Re: How to Enjoy the Game Again?
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2014, 01:51:39 pm »

To beat the 'food hump' that 50+ migrants season 5 brings I send them out to collect plants for brewing/eating.  I brings egglayers and butcher my pack animals  as well.  My farmer usually does it the first season, and may continue, depending on the circumstances.  Worst come to worst, calculate how much food the dwarves you need to survive will need and lock the rest out when that number is hit.  Also fishing, if applicable


In this new version foraging is so effective I dont have any difficulty, even with my own farming mod put in.
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Pisskop's Reblancing Mod - A C:DDA Mod to make life a little (lot) more brutal!
drealmerz7 - pk was supreme pick for traitor too I think, and because of how it all is and pk is he is just feeding into the trollfucking so well.
PKs DF Mod!

taptap

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Re: How to Enjoy the Game Again?
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2014, 06:03:11 am »

Then in data/init/dinit.txt you will set pop_cap, set it to 20 or something.

DF is a big tasty cake, just do not try eat it too fast, because you will vomit on the floor...

This!

Playing with a low pop-cap and mainly/only natural growth changes the game a lot. You suddenly see dwarf children or the migrant master cheesemaker in a completely different light.

Military: It really is not that hard to set up a few people in a default uniform to train permanently - even w/o any previous experience they should be quite decent after 2 years. Embarking with one trainer dwarf w/ e.g. teaching, dodging, shield, wrestling and/or a weapon of choice speeds up the process. While you want them in some armour eventually, training - due to movement speed - slows down tremendously (in my experience) if you deck them out too heavy right away. Also keep some booze and food close to the barracks.

ptb_ptb

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Re: How to Enjoy the Game Again?
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2014, 07:06:48 am »

I like to play with low pop limits then gradually increase the pop limits as the fortress becomes established.  Big+Stupid projects are also fun.  In my current fortress I am attempting to obsidian cast the edge of the map, level by level, until it reaches the same height as the volcano. I have played for over six game years and still have not finished encircling the map with my 3 wide lava 'aqueduct'. :P
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 07:09:30 am by ptb_ptb »
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Harken

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Re: How to Enjoy the Game Again?
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2014, 07:20:36 am »

It's becoming a problem. Dwarf Fortress is losing me.

It's a wide variety of factors, frankly.  Sometimes a fortress just bores me as it ticks over in its early stages and I don't even want to continue. Sometimes I can't find a good embark and I give up generating new worlds. Occasionally a fortress will reach unplayable FPS in its first few months and I get tired of it.

I've tried what I could; playing on harder embarks does nothing for me. Trying an evil region just killed off the fortress with vapor thralls before I even got functioning defenses. Even playing with mods, something always feels wrong.

I'm sure that I'm simply playing the game incorrectly. It seems that given my continuous failure to establish a half-decent military and inability to design a fortress I'm happy with, some facet of my cranium just can't get DF through it.

So what shall I do? I truly do not want to just give up such a fantastic game before having even mined a single block of adamantine, especially having played over a hundred hours of it. Any suggestions at all for how to properly have fun with Dwarf Fortress would help. This problem of mine has led to me failing to complete both the turns in both of the two succession games I've partaken in, and for that, I sincerely apologize. Any way that I might be able to appreciate what is one of the world's best existing video games would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Step outside your comfort zone and play an embark that you normally wouldn't even consider. Give yourself challenges like no farming or no draw bridges. Role play with yourself by pretending that your dwarves practice a religion that requires all male dwarves who are born during the winter be sacrificed. There are a ton of engineering challenges on the DF wiki you could play around with too.

If all else fails just take a break, seriously it works. Years back, I played 34.11 for months on end before burning out and deciding to step back for awhile. Came back during the new updates and not only is everything fresh again but there are new features to learn and experience.

Personally I don't think you *should* do anything to the point where you have to force yourself (at least to an extreme extent) to enjoy it. Play around with a few of our suggestions but consider just taking some time off.

Dwarf Fortess has an extremely loyal and dedicated community and very solid developer(s) - it'll be around forever. I'll be fully content to be a DFer for the rest of my life.

Hope this helps :)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 07:38:08 am by Harken »
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smakemupagus

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Re: How to Enjoy the Game Again?
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2014, 01:21:34 pm »

So, in light of all this, it appears that walling myself in my fortress is the only viable course of action. I can't understand it, as I've read community fortresses that raise dwarves to champion level after only a years' time and a siege or two, whereas my dwarves can't fight off cavern creatures with the best kind of equipment I can provide at the time. I want to be able to play liberally, but the game seems to be unwilling to let it happen.

If there's any way to remedy this, then I would stand another attempt. If not, I think I may very well just take a break and come back later on.

Well, of course there's a way to remedy it, those community forts don't have good militaries by accident, they have experienced overseers who figure out how to make the system work!  Your dwarves will basically never get trained properly if you wall them in. The best training for new recruit melee dwarves is sparring (which they do best when training in 2-man squads) and/or killing invaders, preferably at first those which are already bleeding or stunned or fleeing after being peppered with bolts.

Try something like this

(1) Build two of the same weapon, two shields, 2 helm, 2 mail, and an armor stand by the time of the first migrant wave.  Put 2 promising guys in a squad and let them train at the armor stand for a couple seasons.  With only 2 guys they'll probably spar, which is the best way for scrubs to skill up.

(2) Equip a handful (4 to 6) of crossbowdwarves (xbow, shield, quiver, mail, helm).  Assign them bone bolts for training & combat and copper bolts for combat.  Never give any ammo for training only.  Give an archery target or two but you don't have to actually put them on a training schedule (they'll use it in their free time). If you know how to use waypoints, you might want to have "at least 2" patrol a route atop your walls to get live practice shooting crows or whatever, and keep an eye for ambushes.

(3) Once your melee guys have some skill add them to a squad of ~6 to 10 dwarves.  But put the training schedule on "at least 4 dwarves required to train".  So they don't use the default mode of stand around and wait for every single guy to start the training.  You could create a few more sparring teams, but eventually just switch over to big squads, it's fine.  For best results group swords together, axes together, etc. to maximize value of demonstrations but this isn't critical.

(4) Look for opportunities to give your melee teams some live training on weak critters like coyotes.  Look for combat but do NOT execute glorious headlong charge into battle until your guys have some skill, and add a full set of gear (default melee package + mail + cloak, for example).  Lay out your fort so that the invaders have to walk past a simple raised platform or part of your walls with fortifications; use your xbows to weaken or break the enemy and only engage with melee to finish them.  Against enemies who are better to fight close up like goblin archers, exploit chokepoints (a corner, or a 1-tile gap) to create "ambush zones" -- areas where your melee waits safely to mob the first enemies to come into sight.  Put some weapon traps at these chokepoints with just a couple components, not to destroy the enemy, but to soften them up so your melee guys will have an insurmountable advantage. 

(5) Once you get "ahead of the curve" -- i.e. your veterans can survive a skirmish, you have decent armor and good weapons, and a stocked hospital to fix up minor injuries -- you could plan on keeping the doors open and pretty much fighting off every siege.  You should be rolling, as your newer recruits can fight more or less safely alongside the pros.  Keep ramping up the recruiting though, you don't want to fight at a numerical disadvantage any time you can help it. 

If you follow these steps then you should have ~4 each of melee legends and xbow legends after about 3 years.  It is inevitable.  Well, that's not true, you'll still probably fail, but the key is that you think about what happened and figure out what you did wrong or which part of the advice we gave you was junk, and you fix it.  After a couple attempts you should have it down.  If you're really not feeling like you're making any progress and it all seems totally random to you still, then maybe it really is time for a break.

From your comments you seem to think that a pack of "giant" animals is less dangerous than a goblin invader.  Giant animals are huge and powerful -- their weakness is lack of dodge skills and armor.  You exploit that weakness with, for example, xbow bolts, not by charging in an undertrained militia!   (Invaders, on the other hand, are dependent on their skill and gear, so a copper-axe wielding goblin squad might be easy prey for your moderately trained iron clad militia.  Use the Units tab to see if the goblin captain is a Master -- if so, he's more dangerous than the whole rest of the squad put together.)  You will learn these things by experience, but i wonder if you are stuck in a rut of blaming the game for cursing you with bad luck, and so you aren't as open to experimenting and learning as you could be. 




Max™

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Re: How to Enjoy the Game Again?
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2014, 01:18:08 am »

I did the 20 dorf init cap to get a fortress started and I have never been so happy with how things have turned out, and once I raised the cap to 100 I was unbelievably excited as the goblins started showing up, first 8, then 40, maybe 100 next! I might need to break out the canned magma for that party.

I did have to dial back on my usual habits with food/booze though, normally I'm racing to get bedrooms and furniture and clothes and supplies, this time the first 20 set me up so well that I'm sitting on something like 2000 booze and 1700 prepared meals, while everyone has a royal bedroom (massive engraved room with overlapping bedrooms expanded at least 4 times tends to have them count as a royal, don't put cabinets or coffers in there though, as they will never stop hauling stuff between them as each dorf claims "their" cabinet from another dorf who owns it...) and at a minimum decent office/dining room, most with great or better on those two. Giving them all at least leather armor/leggings/high boots, a shield, and a crossbow or hammer since there are undead around, got a main squad of ridiculous axe/hammer/mace lords who murderfy everything, a backup crossbow/hammer squad I'm experimenting with to see if I can get them to use both effectively while dual wielding (i.e charge in to bash stuff every time they run out of ammo instead of complain or retreat) and a squad of miners who I reserve the best clothes for since the jerks won't respect assigned armor designations, several of whom can double as woodcutters or hunters, and if need be I could deactivate mining and pull them all in for a steel pick murersquad.

No draw bridges, no trap corridors, just an entrance where I can keep the dorfs out of the magma (I have been building various methods to be able to flood the world rapidly at will) that has the first level sealed off, and the partially surrounded by fortifications section where the military train/invaders path towards to die horrible deaths at the hand of my psycho dorfs enjoy a nice cup of tea and crumpets.

It's been fun, more so now that I started getting sieges, prior to that my only issues were with undead mountain goats/eagles, and the occasional accident like when I tried to make a farmer workshop on part of the furthest southwest plot that wouldn't grow anything... only to have animated yak hair stroll out of it because that part of the farm level is in a reanimating biome... made it into a still, bring on the reanimated dwarf rum!
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