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[Varee]

Varee: What is the aim of saying this- to deflect attention from yourself? Do you think Deathsword asking you questions is scummy behaviour?

What i meant is Deathsword is not answering any question except pushin on me, I veiw this as he is avoiding answering question while stay realatively active with his post. If he got nothing to hide then he should answer more question and ask less.

Can you make your posts a bit clearer? I can't quite tell what you were trying to say in the last one.

Varee, that post made next to no sense to me? Can you please be a little more clear when posting? Sorry, it's just really hard to understand you at times. >.>

I was rather busy during the weekend so i rush out the post. I will just list out the point then to keep it clean.

• I didnt understand the way flabort and NQT are talking to each other(and still dont)
• I got a few possiblities on why they might be doing that(secret code, cross  checking)
• I stated that I didnt answer the scum tell question because I feel that by answering it, it will make spoting them harder.
• I dont think the way NQT and flabort is acting is consider buddying, am not sure what I should call it but without explaination of why they are doing it, it is hard to decide what the exchanges mean.

[Worldmaster27]

TDS: Seemed to be trying to sidestep NQT's questioning here, but seems to be doing a decent job of scum hunting. Seems helpful and knows what he's doing. Moderate town lean.

Scripten: Good scumhunting, solid arguments. Nothing that notable, town lean.

Cheeetar: The replacement, I hadn't much of an opinion on UI either way and the same applies to him so far. Null read.

Flabort: Slightly suspicious for questioning how sure Scripten felt on his reads here and here. He's been going after persus pretty hard, but his argument isn't the strongest it might be, but I would expect that on D1. I noticed that sometimes he fluffs up his posts with needless metaphors and such, which I think may be to make it look like his posts are bigger and more filled with content then they are. Nonetheless, they do have content and he is fairly active. Scum lean.

notquitethere: He likes big posts and cannot lie. They have good content in them. Most likely town, or very good scum.

Varee: His posts are hard to make sense of, and he seems quite timid. He avoids answering questions sometimes, and is a pretty hard read. I'm going to say mildly scummy.

Persus13: Seems defensive to me, but has good arguments against Flabort. Is more active now, and seems to be scumhunting well. Currently null, I'd like to see some more to try and get a clearer read.

Deathsword: Mildly active now, he's pretty focused on Varee. This seems slightly suspicious, as Varee (to me, at least) seems like an easy target to scumhunt against. I haven't seen anything else really notable. Slight scum lean.

[flabort]

Varee Your question to me asking for clarification on my question is more than a bit confusing. For simplicity's sake, yes, I want you to rank those three, and no, there usually isn't a reason not to rank yourself as least scummy except a lack of confidence.

TheDarkStar The reasons I find Varee, Persus, and Scripten suspicious:
Varee is suspicious for being way to passive about those votes on him; he just refuses to do anything about them, citing that there is "nothing he can do" about them. Furthermore, he is being confusing (this can be excused because I... think he's ESL from his sig), and he is being way too timid about pressing anything; just take a look at all the ellipses and his writing style in This post, and tell me he isn't being mild mannered; I feel this is leading him to not use his vote aggressively or confidently; other than that, he appears to be going for "too towny".
Scripten was awfully "hands off" during my/persus's conflict, but besides that... well, I got no reason to suspect him other than gut feeling, honestly. I do happen to be the most suspicious member of Clifton's crew, right? Well, basically, I feel like he's not got much going for him as town; he hasn't done anything overtly scummy, even taking into account that reads thing, but I feel like he was railroading NQT into Persus, and possibly me too. But then again, there was defending Persus by basically asking to take my vote, so...? I'm not really sure, but there definitely seems to be some connection between him and Persus in some way.
Persus Earlier I was pressing him due to lurking, and basically for poor RVS play; I retract these points. His activity is up, and or it was, and he is/was engaging other people. Hasn't posted since I cut off our argument; was trying to derail me into tunneling him, I believe. Still, his interaction with TDS is good, and doesn't seem to have the same sense of connection back to Scripten that Scripten has to him.


Since reads are coming out anyways
Scripten Doesn't put much value into Day 1 reads, yet forms them anyways. I guess this isn't bad. Earlier points above, as well. Directing people at either me or Persus for whatever reason. Probably scum.
TheDarkStar I like how he plays to the letter of the law, answering NQT's push for reads on playstyles with actual playstyles. Reading over again, his posts seem oddly short; not too short, but oddly. Mild scum lean.
Cheeetar Previously UI, who I feel was doing a good job at being ignored. Neutral read.
Flabort Best scum player, worst town player. Obviously town, proof is 4 votes on him. <-obviously not serious about that.
Varee Probably just himself; like Toaster in that nobody can get a straight read on him, but because of confusing instead of ironclad cases. Heavy scum lean until proven otherwise.
Persus13 I'm done with him. I don't want to focus on him anymore. Scum lean.
Deathsword Still inactive. Seems to be occupied with Varee for the most point. Neutral read.
Notquitethere Disappeared, might just be weekend. Not afraid of big posts, not afraid to jump on anything. Not sure why Varee thought NQT and I were buddying, though, if that's what he thought; as said previously, Varee can be a little confusing. Slight town lean.
Worldmaster Already surpassed my town game. Quick to form evaluations, but cautious to rely on them; a really good trait. Slight town lean.

[Cheeetar]

Deathsword: Who do you think the scum would want to go after first, a jailkeeper or cop?

Worldmaster: Why did you ask this question of Deathsword? Why didn't you care when he ignored it? What is the purpose of the questions you've been asking so far?

[notquitethere]

(I'm a busy socialite on weekends. Will post properly in a few hours time.)

[Teneb]

Deathsword: Who do you think the scum would want to go after first, a jailkeeper or cop?

Worldmaster: Why did you ask this question of Deathsword? Why didn't you care when he ignored it? What is the purpose of the questions you've been asking so far?

I actually missed this question, and I've been going through the thread like crazy trying to find the question Varee is accusing me of "avoiding". So thanks for spotting that. Anyone knows anything else I missed, please bring that to my attention.

On to answer it then: The cop is far more dangerous to scum than the jailkeeper. The jailkeeper can hinder the scum, but the cop can point them out.

Varee: What is the aim of saying this- to deflect attention from yourself? Do you think Deathsword asking you questions is scummy behaviour?

What i meant is Deathsword is not answering any question except pushin on me, I veiw this as he is avoiding answering question while stay realatively active with his post. If he got nothing to hide then he should answer more question and ask less.

Why should I ask less? How do you expect me to find scum otherwise? Should I just put on my wizard hat, say some words in dog latin and divine the identity of the scum? Furthermore, it is ironic you say that I should answer more if I have nothing to hide, yet you outright (and explicitly) refuse to answer one question. Funny that.

• I stated that I didnt answer the scum tell question because I feel that by answering it, it will make spoting them harder.

Except that was a yes/no question. All you had to say was "yes, I think I could point them out in hindsight due to how stuff unfolded" or "no, they played quite well there". That's it. You are refusing to answer based on pure stubbornness.

Cheetar: Once you are done with reading the thread, could you say your reads on everyone?

Could you also post your reads, Deathsword?

Sure

Deathsword: Myself, the handsome rogue that I am.
Varee: I think is scum, or very uncooperative town (which is just as bad). Is flailing widely based on a pressure vote from myself, which makes me even more suspicious. Doing some newbie reactions, but I think they are certainly not newbies and I remember a game where someone (forgot whom) pretended to be a newbie to look town (was actually town, but succeeded exceptionally), and this leaves me wary.
Cheetar: Just in, so as null as it gets.
TDS: Neutral. Just... can't seem to notice anything notable about TDS and it's bugging me.
NQT: Play seems to line up with what I've seen before when he was town. Then again, it's been some time since I last played, so things could've changed. Still leaning town.
Flarbot: Seems to have become tired of interacting with persus, in the context of this game; and has formed suspects of their own. Neutral for now.
Scripten and Persus: Going with neutral for now, but I may revise this opinion.
Worldmaster: Kind of new-ish feel, but doing well enough despite the impression of a lack of direction the questions give. Leaning town.

[Worldmaster27]

Deathsword: Who do you think the scum would want to go after first, a jailkeeper or cop?

Worldmaster: Why did you ask this question of Deathsword? Why didn't you care when he ignored it? What is the purpose of the questions you've been asking so far?

To try and spark conversation, and perhaps learn something from his reasoning for his answer. I didn't mention anything while he ignored it because I had completely forgotten about having asked it.

As far as the purpose of my previous questions, there hasn't been much aim aside from trying to start conversation and see if their answers seem town oriented, for lack of a better word(s).

What do you think of Scripten's stating that he thinks D1 reads are crap, and still posting reads of his own? This seems like one of flabort's main dislikes about him.

Flabort: Could you please provide an example of where Scripten might be trying to direct people at either you or Persus? I hadn't noticed any of that when I read back through, though I may have missed something.

Deathsword: Besides Varee, who do you think is most likely to be scum? I'm asking this because I think that is is somewhat strange you have only one scum read.

[Scripten]

What do you think of Scripten's stating that he thinks D1 reads are crap, and still posting reads of his own? This seems like one of flabort's main dislikes about him.

Flabort: Could you please provide an example of where Scripten might be trying to direct people at either you or Persus? I hadn't noticed any of that when I read back through, though I may have missed something.

Okay, I think this has gone on long enough. Flabort attempting to get me scumread for stating that Day 1 reads are inaccurate or, to use the vernacular I used before, crap is very much misrepresentation of my words. Just because the reads are usually wrong doesn't mean that posting them is anti-town and can cause the game state to progress, which is a good thing. I would appreciate it if I wasn't misrepped over that from here on out.

Moreover, the exchange between Persus13 and Flabort was one of the first times something other than RVS occurred in this game, so ignoring it would be poor play. Interacting with other players to establish reads and exchange ideas is not a scum tactic and I find the fact that I'm also being scumread for it to be highly suspect.

[Cheeetar]

What do you think of Scripten's stating that he thinks D1 reads are crap, and still posting reads of his own? This seems like one of flabort's main dislikes about him.

It seems fair enough; just because day 1 reads are generally pretty terrible (and for good reason) it doesn't mean Scripten can't participate by sharing his thoughts on players so far.

Asking questions just to, well, ask questions isn't the best thing to do- activity should never be solely for activity's sake. Also: If the question is generic, scum (barring poor play) will have no problem appearing towny in answering them. Don't rely on scum to incrimate themselves, seek to force them into it.

[Worldmaster27]

Scripten: Sorry if it seemed I was poking at you for that - I wasn't trying to and was asking for Cheeetar's opinion on flabort's argument there, to clarify.

[Varee]

@Deathsword, wait i was not talking about the hindsight question at all...... I already said no to that. The third question that flabort as me was to rank who is the scummiest. If you really want an answer for that, i got to say the scummiest person is whoever am voting.


You seem to be missing a lot of stuff..... I accept that it is partially my fault as my post was not the easiest to follow so let me ask you a new question, Do you think trying to lynch flabort is a scum move? I mean he is one of the more experience player so getting rid of him benefit the scum unless he is a scum himself rigt?

[notquitethere]

I'm very tired right now, so I've just got some quick follow up for everyone. Going to get some sleep and then go over the thread tomorrow (Tuesday) and then post reads and ask questions etc as usual. My apologies for the slight relaxation of standards.

TDS

By the way, why aren't you questioning Worldmaster for his lack of voting?

I was waiting for his reply to my outstanding questions before launching any fresh offensive.


Flabort

So you're still in RVS mode, but at least you're participating.

I wouldn't say I was still in 'RVS mode', I usually wait for people to respond to me before swapping my vote off them regardless of the phase of the game. That's the path of diligence.

The least attention has been given to either Deathsword, or UI.

And so it's no surprise you have a neutral read on Deathsword and UI/Cheetah then.

As far as looking over stuff, NotQuiteThere, are you able to go over the thread again and let us know if anything suspicious comes to mind?

Yep, now the day has been mod-extended, I'm going to go over the whole thread with a fine tooth-comb and then post my reads and observations. But first I'm going to get some sleep!


Varee

I dont really understand the more experience players..... they seem to like to ask each other what they think and relying on that info to work on ..... that you NQT and Flabort, maybe you guys should trust each other a little bit less, or maybe i am paraniod.....

It's reasonable to be paranoid. I think it's helpful to be cordial and expect other players to act like competent town. When they fail in your expectations as helpful and rigorous scum hunters, then you can hoist them by their own petards question them for inconsistency.

NQT: I dont think I should answer your question now for the same reason you didnt answer flabort, If you reveal your plan it is easier to avoid.

I see, so you're going to do something differently this game that is also a secret. OK. Sure, you could be telling the truth. I'll ask you on Day 3 then (or if I'm dead someone else can ask you). I hope you have a good answer by then.


Persus

I hope you will be alive tomorrow, I'll have a few questions for you that I don't want to ask till then.

I look forward to it.


Deathsword

I am aware of the irony of this answer, but I think it'll end up with scumhunting carrying the day. There is only so much the power roles can do, especially if they are killed early.

That's reasonable. Who do you think is scum hunting the most and the least so far?


Worldmaster

It will be more difficult because, from my point of view, it is that much more likely that the scum will also be more experienced. Town only have a large advantage in numbers in the first couple of days, if scum is not lynched.

I see. And while town have the majority, are you going to try to find the scum? Who do you think is the scummiest player so far? (i.e. why aren't you voting?)


Scripten
This:

I see... so why are you still voting Persus? Your initial vote on him was just asking where he'd been.

Cheetah
Thanks for replacing in. Though you've now unvoted Varee, would you be able to answer the emboldened part here:

Imiknorris

NQT: The most important thing is a preliminary read on everyone, as well as material to question them over, such as why they tied the vote or why they didn't vote x or why they attacked y for voting x. Basically, reads and leads.

I can go along with that. Would you prefer people were also voting Varee, or are you happy having a non-lynching vote on someone at the end of the day?

[flabort]

Flabort: Could you please provide an example of where Scripten might be trying to direct people at either you or Persus? I hadn't noticed any of that when I read back through, though I may have missed something.

Sure^{[Note 1]}. I'm pretty sure he's at least got his attention on me by now^{[Note 2]}, and has made at least one long reply to Persus^{[Note 3]}. There's also his first vote^{[Note 4]} on Persus while speaking to me.

<sub>Click the citation links to see individual posts.
1. Directing NQT to tunnel on either Persus or I.
2. I have his attention, this might not be good for me.
3. Long replies get attention.
4. Persus and I seem to be Scripten's Pre-game targets, despite saying "I don't do these".</sub>

I mean he is one of the more experience player

Ahahahahahah. No I am not. I have not won a game as town yet.

Flabort

So you're still in RVS mode, but at least you're participating.

I wouldn't say I was still in 'RVS mode', I usually wait for people to respond to me before swapping my vote off them regardless of the phase of the game. That's the path of diligence.

The least attention has been given to either Deathsword, or UI.

And so it's no surprise you have a neutral read on Deathsword and UI/Cheetah then.

As far as looking over stuff, NotQuiteThere, are you able to go over the thread again and let us know if anything suspicious comes to mind?

Yep, now the day has been mod-extended, I'm going to go over the whole thread with a fine tooth-comb and then post my reads and observations. But first I'm going to get some sleep!

Alright. That all sounds mostly good. See you once you have had your sleep, then.

[Cheeetar]

Cheetah
Thanks for replacing in. Though you've now unvoted Varee, would you be able to answer the emboldened part here:

Imiknorris

NQT: The most important thing is a preliminary read on everyone, as well as material to question them over, such as why they tied the vote or why they didn't vote x or why they attacked y for voting x. Basically, reads and leads.

I can go along with that. Would you prefer people were also voting Varee, or are you happy having a non-lynching vote on someone at the end of the day?

I'm okay with my vote, at the end of the day, being on somebody who is not the final lynch target in a number of situations. I wouldn't necessarily be happy- generally speaking, the person I am voting will be the person I view as most suspicious and likely to be scum.

[TheDarkStar]

I'm very tired right now, so I've just got some quick follow up for everyone. Going to get some sleep and then go over the thread tomorrow (Tuesday) and then post reads and ask questions etc as usual. My apologies for the slight relaxation of standards.

TDS

By the way, why aren't you questioning Worldmaster for his lack of voting?

I was waiting for his reply to my outstanding questions before launching any fresh offensive.

You didn't quote the question to you from the post, but yes, I'm going to try to get scum lynched. Did you ever answer my question to you?