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[LuckyKobold]

KI'Tork uses 3 Essence to bolster the Kobold Population.

"You're both right."

[Andres]

"That isn't how the butterfly effect works, you can't expect to get out of paying hundreds of essence using it. Council backed or no, it is a horrible idea. It will either take a literal eternity or a bucket full of essence. Bad idea, I oppose it."

"Actually, that is how it works. I've tested it. The protostar has been made and planets are starting to form. Best of all is I didn't use a single unit of Essence. The worst part is that it's taken quite a few Ticks just to get to this stage. It will only take a "literal eternity" if we don't influence it at all. You have to remember that the butterfly effect is still a godly action and things happen quicker when using it."

(Andres, creating a galaxy does not seem to me as something that needs to happen so soon as to not have the time to ask KJP for the cost.)

(Ninja'd. It costs nothing assuming the process is dragged out for enough ticks. (I suggested a few(3) dozen Ticks.) See above for proof that the concept is possible without Essence.)

[Stirk]

"Actually, that is how it works. I've tested it. The protostar has been made and planets are starting to form. Best of all is I didn't use a single unit of Essence. The worst part is that it's taken quite a few Ticks just to get to this stage. It will only take a "literal eternity" if we don't influence it at all. You have to remember that the butterfly effect is still a godly action and things happen quicker when using it."

"You obviously can't comprehend the scale of this. We can make stars on a whim, shape planets on a dare, or blow up a few dozen asteroid belts for shooting practice. But it can not effect things. Even if your solar system does end up getting made, and does and up seeing use, it is not on the scale of what you are asking. You do not comprehend what the butterfly effect is, or how many planets you are asking to build, and how poorly this will work. Your little solar system has not even been created yet, why would you want to try expanding it when it isn't proven to even work?"

(Ninja'd. It costs nothing assuming the process is dragged out for enough ticks. (I suggested a few(3) dozen Ticks.) See above for proof that the concept is possible without Essence.)

(Remember that that is 100% assumption on his part.)

[Rolepgeek]

"You obviously can't comprehend the scale of this. We can make stars on a whim, shape planets on a dare, or blow up a few dozen asteroid belts for shooting practice. But it can not effect things. Even if your solar system does end up getting made, and does and up seeing use, it is not on the scale of what you are asking. You do not comprehend what the butterfly effect is, or how many planets you are asking to build, and how poorly this will work. Your little solar system has not even been created yet, why would you want to try expanding it when it isn't proven to even work?"

You're incorrect. Plain and simple. You are wrong, in this case. There isn't a downside to this proposal, to put it simply. If it takes forever, oh well, we didn't lose anything. If it doesn't, and in fact is useful, we all stand to benefit. We'll be able to see beforehand how much Essence it will cost, and if it doesn't cost all that much, we can go through with it.

However, if we do go through with it and it does cost essence, I think part of the proposal should be that those who refused to chip in shouldn't be allowed to gain anything from it. Feel free to not support it, Fusil~

[Stirk]

You're incorrect. Plain and simple. You are wrong, in this case. There isn't a downside to this proposal, to put it simply. If it takes forever, oh well, we didn't lose anything. If it doesn't, and in fact is useful, we all stand to benefit. We'll be able to see beforehand how much Essence it will cost, and if it doesn't cost all that much, we can go through with it.

"Did I ever mention the fact that you are a know-nothing idiot? Now lets say it was free to do this. Lets say it only took one turn. It isn't especially useful, we don't really benefit, and you do not understand the full consequences. What would be gain, exactly? Now let me spell out for your pathetic behind what we would lose. Everything. It is no doubt that such a grand, pointless action would only serve to increase the size of our bubble. Once the size of our bubble increases significantly, such as in that case, the Luminals will use us as a springboard to escape their orbit, throwing us out of our location. Which will completely destroy the bubble and everything in it. All for what?"

[Andres]

"The Bubble is already extremely large. We won't be expanding the Bubble - just filling it in. Well, technically it's already filled with nebulae so we won't be "filling it in" so much as "condensing and moddelling." Regardless, it won't expand the Bubble. Shrink it? I don't know. Expand it? Definitely not." (I created the proto-star by using the butterfly effect on a nebula. Nebulae already exist - we don't need to create them.)

[Stirk]

"The Bubble is already extremely large. We won't be expanding the Bubble - just filling it in. Well, technically it's already filled with nebulae so we won't be "filling it in" so much as "condensing and moddelling." Regardless, it won't expand the Bubble. Shrink it? I don't know. Expand it? Definitely not." (I created the proto-star by using the butterfly effect on a nebula. They exist already - we don't need to create them.)

"Again, you are trying to explain things you do not understand at all. Nebulae are essentially empty space, as far as it concerns anything important, including us and the Void. You are a fool if you think that is how it works. Have you not noticed? The Void Ones target important planets. That is where temples and statues and other buildings are created. If they didn't have a reason for that, they could have built them far out of the sight of any God in existence, safe away. The planets, the important things, are what adds "weight" to the bubble, while for whatever reason the "empty space" does not. Filling up the empty space, removing it, and putting in "weights" will destroy our bubble, with almost nothing gained. You do not know what you are talking about. Have I not made that clear before? It hasn't even been tested. Your little protostar could take ten million years to fully form, and even then you would probably mess it up.

[Rolepgeek]

Assumptions are so petty of you, Fusil. You're still wrong. We get a huge amount of planets to serve as tools we can maneuver to use for magic in case we wanted to contact other bubbles. I have no reason whatsoever to believe you on any of this, and I don't. It won't increase the size of the bubble and they build temples because it's the mortals that give weight, not the planets. Planets are just huge chunks of rock. All those planets allow us to multiply our races immensely, and provide safe testing grounds for experiments. And again, maneuvering systems of stars and planets into position to provide conduits for magic will allow us to accomplish a great deal.

[Andres]

(Ninja'd.)

"The Bubble is already extremely large. We won't be expanding the Bubble - just filling it in. Well, technically it's already filled with nebulae so we won't be "filling it in" so much as "condensing and moddelling." Regardless, it won't expand the Bubble. Shrink it? I don't know. Expand it? Definitely not." (I created the proto-star by using the butterfly effect on a nebula. They exist already - we don't need to create them.)

"Again, you are trying to explain things you do not understand at all. Nebulae are essentially empty space, as far as it concerns anything important, including us and the Void. You are a fool if you think that is how it works. Have you not noticed? The Void Ones target important planets. That is where temples and statues and other buildings are created. If they didn't have a reason for that, they could have built them far out of the sight of any God in existence, safe away. The planets, the important things, are what adds "weight" to the bubble, while for whatever reason the "empty space" does not. Filling up the empty space, removing it, and putting in "weights" will destroy our bubble, with almost nothing gained. You do not know what you are talking about. Have I not made that clear before? It hasn't even been tested. Your little protostar could take ten million years to fully form, and even then you would probably mess it up.

"The proto-star took about 10 Ticks to make. As for your other claims, I think you're talking out of your arse. What proof do you have that making planets will add "weight" to the Bubble? Perhaps the only thing of importance in the Bubble are sapients? Remember: temples and monuments are useless if there's no one to behold them. Unless you start citing your sources, I'm going to ignore your assumptions about the Bubble."

Assumptions are so petty of you, Fusil. You're still wrong. We get a huge amount of planets to serve as tools we can maneuver to use for magic in case we wanted to contact other bubbles. I have no reason whatsoever to believe you on any of this, and I don't. It won't increase the size of the bubble and they build temples because it's the mortals that give weight, not the planets. Planets are just huge chunks of rock. All those planets allow us to multiply our races immensely, and provide safe testing grounds for experiments. And again, maneuvering systems of stars and planets into position to provide conduits for magic will allow us to accomplish a great deal.

"Conduits for magic? Could you explain this phenomenon?"

[Rolepgeek]

Patterns, Malakath. It's evidenced by runes, and Cim probably knows far more about it than I, but simply put; geometric patterns, recurring sequences, and alignments of mystical phenomena enable magic to become more powerful and more efficient. Scale and effectiveness differs, but if we had enough material we could probably create a galaxy for the express purpose of allowing us to communicate with other Bubbles without killing ourselves.

[Andres]

"Of course! Rune magic! Perhaps if we modelled a galaxy with the rune of Cosmic - assuming it exists - can we perhaps enhance our godly abilities at no extra cost? I haven't delved much into that area of magic, I'm afraid. My focus is on souls at the moment."

[LuckyKobold]

"Why not just stop penny pinching and be Satisfied with the old way of doing things."

[Andres]

"Because no god is satisfied with what they have now. If every god had their own planets, then every god would be satisfied. It's all for the Greater Satisfaction."

[LuckyKobold]

"Fair Enough, And how did you now I participated in Satisfactionism?"

[Stirk]

Assumptions are so petty of you, Fusil. You're still wrong. We get a huge amount of planets to serve as tools we can maneuver to use for magic in case we wanted to contact other bubbles. I have no reason whatsoever to believe you on any of this, and I don't. It won't increase the size of the bubble and they build temples because it's the mortals that give weight, not the planets. Planets are just huge chunks of rock. All those planets allow us to multiply our races immensely, and provide safe testing grounds for experiments. And again, maneuvering systems of stars and planets into position to provide conduits for magic will allow us to accomplish a great deal.

"Bubbles have been destroyed that have no mortal presence. If your theory was correct, that would not be so. Again, you are overestimating magic. It doesn't work that way, and you can't move around planets with people as if they where pawns for no cost. If you would just pick up a book, you would see that everything I am saying is true. The Luminal's goals are not hidden at all, though its effects are more of a secret. Even a beginner's book would show you this. Anyone who has done anything with the Void, Cim, Serac, or even a handful of Mortals could tell you this at least. Once again, you keep doubting me, but put no effort into either disproving or researching the facts I bring up yourself. Could it be that you are actively attempting to increase the size of our bubble on request from the Void?"

"The proto-star took about 10 Ticks to make. As for your other claims, I think you're talking out of your arse. What proof do you have that making planets will add "weight" to the Bubble? Perhaps the only thing of importance in the Bubble are sapients? Remember: temples and monuments are useless if there's no one to behold them. Unless you start citing your sources, I'm going to ignore your assumptions about the Bubble."

"Books. Have you ever read one? Are you even capable of doing so? Then go look it up. There are plenty of documents showing the Null destroying bubbles, uninhabited, inhabited, against them or for them. I am sure if I just read a passage out loud, you wouldn't believe me. Even if I thought it best to share my sources, you would dismiss the facts offhand. I know you will. The only way you would ever believe me is if you pulled up the facts yourself."

Patterns, Malakath. It's evidenced by runes, and Cim probably knows far more about it than I, but simply put; geometric patterns, recurring sequences, and alignments of mystical phenomena enable magic to become more powerful and more efficient. Scale and effectiveness differs, but if we had enough material we could probably create a galaxy for the express purpose of allowing us to communicate with other Bubbles without killing ourselves.

"Runes have no power on their own, or do patterns. Magic isn't nearly powerful enough to do such a thing, you cannot expect to get something that would be so absurdly expensive with Godly essence with something as simple and weak as magic, not with a billion galaxies powering it."

"Of course! Rune magic! Perhaps if we modelled a galaxy with the rune of Cosmic - assuming it exists - can we perhaps enhance our godly abilities at no extra cost? I haven't delved much into that area of magic, I'm afraid. My focus is on souls at the moment."

"Malakath, you are an absolute idiot. First, the categories you keep trying to put magic into are a lot more fluid then you believe. Second, what we do is not Cosmic magic. It is Godly creation. It is as different as a man and a finger puppet, they scarcely even take the same shape. Don't you have some mages following you? If you are so afraid of books, why not just ask one of them how magic works?"