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Author Topic: How far ahead do you plan?  (Read 4547 times)

Baffler

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Re: How far ahead do you plan?
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2014, 11:28:09 pm »

I plan my forts meticulously, spending several hours on designations for the whole fortress. I dig it out in stages with disconnected hallways like cephalo. Every one has a very different design overall, but it tends to center around large "halls" with engraved pillars and lots of space. Big corridors connect the Great Halls, and smaller hallways lead off to the sides (but not very far) to workshops, stockpiles, statue gardens, and small setups with tables, chairs, and a small prepared meal stockpile.

The only exception is the main Dining Hall, the only place booze is stored. Rooms just end up near the workshops where their residents work, and tend to be 3x3 with 2 beds and cabinets each, plus an armor stand, weapon rack, statue, or caged bird. The end result is a super decentralized fort, built to hold lots and lots of dwarves. It's rare that they end up filling up, what with all of the deadly cavern fauna caged up in people's rooms and the open caverns, but I couldn't imagine doing it any other way.
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indyofcomo

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Re: How far ahead do you plan?
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2014, 10:58:33 am »

I plan to keep my inter-dependent work spaces close together. Also, I try to plan out where I want wells, which usually means planning apartments, dining halls, and hospitals--too many times I've gone to dig a cistern for my well to discover my noble's quarters right below it.
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Nr12

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Re: How far ahead do you plan?
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2014, 03:49:58 am »

Much like Geoclasm I have a couple of must-haves for my embark site, once I've finally found an acceptable spot I usually get myself a cup of coffe or three, sit there for hours and designate my fortress. Personally I find it annoying to follow LPers who just goes for the most efficient (but horribly ugly) designs. I try to imagine my fortress from the eyes of an explorer or the invading fortress and often end up with pillar halls, great chasms, grand dining halls, areas designated for artifacts and history archiving and luxurious public spaces (like wells).

What problems have I experienced? Often I forgot to section off something, like the irrigation system or a certain chasms before I know it I have a dead dwarf under a bridge or a stuck and dehydrated dwarf who has several days of mining ahead just so he doesn't stray from the master plan. Sometimes I've even outdone myself and have so much mining to do that a first expedition will not be enough to have a functional fortress up before their supplies are gone.

Why do I do this? I think it's because I'm still in a place where I want to see just how grand a fortress I can build, to work around the lack of certain resources and adapt to environmental challenges just doesn't lure me yet.
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StagnantSoul

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Re: How far ahead do you plan?
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2014, 04:05:48 am »

Correction: I don't fully wing my fortresses: I plan out from day one to kill and enslave stuff. Right from the embark, at least 15 cassiterite, for 60 fast bronze bars, enough for two fully armed and armoured dwarves. I order in tons of leather, and get everything ready for a fort full of killing machines. Every step in my fortress somehow relates to having even more dangerous dwarves. That nice carpenter? Making shields for the militia, and training spears for danger rooms. That peaceful mason? Statues to dodge into, and tables and chairs to keep my killers happy in the off-time. Even the cook is making sure they have non perishable food, for weeks of spelunking and cleansing the caverns. Everything else, such as rooms, farms, crafting, anything that wont help my military, is... Winged? Wung?
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mnjiman

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Re: How far ahead do you plan?
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2014, 12:33:28 am »

It is a combination of of short term and long term goals that I plan for. You have to adapt for events that happen for the now and you have to plan for the future. Gotta get basics up and running asap. Food, booze, basic army, and starting to build goods to trade for the first caravan. If something happens that makes food or booze take longer then it needs to be, gotta put more dwarves on the job to get those items pumped out. I hope nothing goes wrong with the caravan then I can grab some extra back up goods too. For my base plans I tend to have everything automatically laid out in my head.

%aking advantage of dwarven travelling knowledge with stairs (it takes a single step to go up stairs, one less on ramps of course) I tend to have my fortress rooms go about 28 by 28, with about 14 z lvls deep. That way dwarves pretty much travel anywhere pretty quickly. The furthest any dwarf has to travel is 42 steps.

With this in mind I tend to have all my rooms a very efficient distance from one another. Military closer to the entrance, nobles closer to the top of the fortress but away from possible constructions. Trade is up near the top of the fortress... etc etc. I also make sure there is room for future magma/water projects.
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I was thinking more along the lines of this legendary champion, all clad in dented and dinged up steel plate, his blood-drenched axe slung over his back, a notch in the handle for every enemy that saw the swing of that blade as the last sight they ever saw, a battered shield strapped over his arm... and a fluffy, pink stuffed hippo hidden discretely in his breastplate.

Eric Blank

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Re: How far ahead do you plan?
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2014, 01:24:49 am »

I don't plan far enough ahead, usually. I almost always use the same basic layout, and I always forget to leave room for things I'll want to include later, so I often have to go out of my way to remodel parts of the fort or prepare new facilities that may not be in convenient locations.

I admit though that forts I design organically, without a plan, often turn into my favorites.
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LMeire

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Re: How far ahead do you plan?
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2014, 02:48:00 am »

I plan years ahead...

...and then I "forget" some critical element to survival to get the entertainment going faster. Nothing quite like having everything you need to jumpstart steel working and glasscrafts only to spend half the game looking for plants because you didn't bring any crops, seeds, or booze and the biome is freezing. "Whoops"
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Putnam

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Re: How far ahead do you plan?
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2014, 03:01:20 am »

~20 seconds

Itnetlolor

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Re: How far ahead do you plan?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2014, 03:01:43 pm »

I try to plan as far ahead as finding the right terrain and subterrain setups (preferably a good enclosed area, like a river with a waterfall in it that I can box myself in on; rich in minerals I can process, as well as plentiful trees in it). I then establish a basic understanding of my surroundings for a good few minutes so I can plot how I want to initiate my fortress (or just get started with the front gate immediately).

As I do that, I begin immediately with building some wheelbarrows, and setting up a central MASTER-IN stockpile for all my crap. But this time around, I took to understanding the weights of things more clearly, so I can make my resource collecting more efficient. Tedious to start, but worthwhile when complete, after I finish expanding my MASTER-IN from a single 5x5 + quantum-compressor to a 8x(5x5)+QC, then the real profit comes rolling in.

The initial 5x5 is to clean out the local areas as well as my wagon into a safer area. The QC is there to condense it into a much tinier stockpile for trade and otherwise, until my industries kick in. Once they do, that's when the expansion into 8 5x5 grids comes into play, with the new trade depot center to it all. Down the line, I will specialize my IMPORTS/EXPORTS (MASTER-IN is always step-1, then sub-divides to specialized (If: FROM-M-I) occur post-compression)) so not all the heavy stuff is always clustered into the MASTER-IN pile. Upon expansion, my 8 piles get split into 4 piles, 4 for light stuff, and 4 for heavy stuff (which require 3 wheelbarrows per-pile (100 units of space, 12 WBs in full-cycle; the other, 100 units of space, all available haulers in full-cycle; same haulers for heavy to QC). If anything, the quantum compressor is probably the most useful bit of it.


A further refinement to my sorting system would relocate industries and their supply lines more directly. So naturally, my woodcrafting and carpentry industries will be closer to the surface and main pile (more like taking from it post-processing; same would be done with the initial farm & fishing industries); whereas my stonecrafting industries would be deeper underground, until materials have been processed; in which they would be sent to specialized stockpiles found throughout the fort (especially now that they're lighter blocks, and not boulders, and stored in bins, and many can be hauled at a time now. Great for walls and improvised building implements), whether in development or not. In essence, taking from the factories, and plopping them just outside of it for general perusing (for the moody), like a mini-marketplace of all raw uniques and the like (forbidden until mood hits); yet not interesting enough to be snatched by a goblin thief. Similarly, I would have QC stockpiles of individual color sortings depending on the factory in use, and even control materials to be used pre-processing (mostly so I don't accidentally process magma-safe materials for something that doesn't need it, and the like; same applies to making featherwood (Nerf) training weapons apart from oaken spiked balls of death (before being replaced with green glass versions, which are far cheaper to produce, and still just as nasty)), which can also hurt like hell in training.).

SUMMARY:
Basically, I would start off with a rudimentary master stockpile, and the further my fort develops, the more refined the MASTER-IN and other similar stockpiles become down the line (especially industrial ones). That's my main central focus (even barrels and bins will have their own condensed vending machine zone for my food&booze sector)). Once I have that efficiency down, the rest would follow. It can be accomplished within the first year, and become exponentially more useful as time passes; the initial setting up is what's generally tedious, especially with such few hands working on it at first. To get a basic build and easy-access square setup would make things magnitudes easier at the start, and safe from those damned keas (thieving little squawky bastards).

SUMMARY OF SUMMARY:
Vending machines... VENDING MACHINES F***ING EVERYWHERE!!!!! MWUAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Furniture to weapons, you can find them at deposit zones I establish as the fort develops.

EXAMPLES OF IT IN ACTION: (Caution: It's a far-less refined version of it, so it's much more sluggish than the recent improvements (One major (15x15 - 5x5) stockpile, instead of the 8 divisions of 5x5 I concluded was far more refined, despite exact same area occupied). Still quick for a prototype, though.)
http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-2472-centralhubinactionminingexpansionandetc
http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-2475-speedycleanupservice
http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-2476-speedycleanupservicepartdeux

I suggest playing at 3x (300) speed so you can watch it as quickly as it happened on my machine.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 03:57:45 pm by Itnetlolor »
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Eldin00

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Re: How far ahead do you plan?
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2014, 12:36:10 am »

I used to plan things meticulously. And of course something unexpected almost always forced me to change those plans. These days I do very little actual planning, though I have a few basic patterns for parts of the fortress which have emerged over time, mostly through trial and error. However, the locations and small details of the parts can vary quite a bit depending on my embark site, the various events that crop up while I'm still building, or my mood at the time. Embark sites have followed the same general trajectory as my degree of planning in the fortress layout. I used to be extremely particular about my site. These days, I'll consider anything with at least soil, 1 shallow metal, 1 deep metal, and a few trees to cut down.

In general, my rough fortress layout is usually something similar to (from surface down):

A surface fort to protect any grazing animals I choose to keep and a few above-ground farm plots. Farmers Workshops for milking and shearing, butcher's shops, and fisheries (if I'm letting dwarves fish) are usually inside this fort. The fort may or may not contain my main fortress entrance.

Sub-surface farm plots, kitchens, stills, additional farmer's workshops.
(There will generally be barracks and a trade depot located either in my surface fort or the underground farm level)

2-3 layers of living space.  Top layer will usually have a dining hall, one of the layers will usually have a hospital.

1-3 layers of general purpose stockpiles and offices. May also have cisterns for the living space layers mixed in.

'industry pods', which are my personal standard 11x11x3 workshop/stockpile units. (bottom z-level has raw material stockpiles, middle z-level has 8 workshops, top level has stockpiles for workshop output, pod has a central staircase connecting the 3 layers. Pods for magma workshops are 4 layers, with a magma chamber between the workshops and raw materials stockpiles)

tombs and graveyards

Mines happen wherever I find stone or mineral deposits I'm interested in, and can cause layers to be skipped for other purposes in the above layout (or result in very irregular rooms/halls in some layers that get used for other things anyway). Moats of water or magma sometimes get built, and sometimes not. Anything I decide to build that isn't mentioned above gets built wherever it's convenient at the time I decide to build it.
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pisskop

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Re: How far ahead do you plan?
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2014, 12:24:39 pm »

I used to lay out my whole fort before even unpausing.  Then when I discovered aquifers sucked but I should learn to deal I started laying out generalized floorplans in my head.  Now Im graduating to conceptual designs and hopefully Ill get on to asymmetric and even 'world-gen' style forts and other wonkyness where efficiency and organized lines are a thing of the past.
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Itnetlolor

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Re: How far ahead do you plan?
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2014, 01:20:46 pm »

I used to lay out my whole fort before even unpausing.  Then when I discovered aquifers sucked but I should learn to deal I started laying out generalized floorplans in my head.  Now Im graduating to conceptual designs and hopefully Ill get on to asymmetric and even 'world-gen' style forts and other wonkyness where efficiency and organized lines are a thing of the past.
I made myself a reference sheet of designs, and what they'd best be suited for, with even marking of how they would fit with one another in a modular format. Highly adaptable, and a nice little personal cheet sheet for myself about my own workings.

So I have my standard hallways widths (from 1-7-wide (most commonly 3-wide and double-wide branches, and single-width sub-branches; best for housing and industry)), community center designs, multi-role station designs, barrack and dorm builds, entry and exit areas, with one-way or top-security clearance builds. Basically, I have an architect's modular cheat sheet I made for myself, overall. DFHack also helps heaps with it's circular designations too; especially when applying modular design. Paint.NET is handy with layering when it comes to modular designing.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2014, 01:27:58 pm by Itnetlolor »
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snelg

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Re: How far ahead do you plan?
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2014, 09:16:18 am »

Mostly not planning particularly much, but have a few designs I will more or less re-use over and over again for some areas such as workshops.

Worldgen is generally where I spend my setup time, to get something interesting.
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Melting Sky

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Re: How far ahead do you plan?
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2014, 04:23:41 am »

When I winged it, I had the most impenetrable, flexible, and senseless forts in history. When I plan it out, I get destroyed quite heavily, because I forget about a little detail.

I thought I was the only one. I too find that when I plan out some huge fort all at once at the very beginning that inevitably there is some silly little detail I overlook in all of the vast complexity of the planning and then I spend my first winter trying desperately to patch the cascade of horror that follows since my resources have been stretched to the absolute bleeding edge limit getting everything done at once. Last time it was the pure stupidity of failing to designate my farm plots for actual planting. I had full blown metal, stone and wood industries going, and a massively complex automated defensive grid set up.

All of a sudden I am out of booze because the very first link in the complex supply chain I set up to manufacture it is missing, I am sieged by necromancers and the well is literally like mere steps from being completed as the fortress is trapped in lock down and the world freezes over with nothing to make booze from. Face palm!
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 05:09:53 am by Melting Sky »
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Madman198237

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Re: How far ahead do you plan?
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2014, 10:35:17 am »

I plan a little bit, not much, however. Usually based around a 1 to 4 tile straight-down stairway to promote speed, with each industry concentrated on one floor, with dining room and living quarters on a separate level.
 I have one REALLY good fort that ended up with more gold that I could ever need, meaning that I get everything from the caravan that I need. About a quarter of my current gold in that fort is sufficient to buy out an entire dwarf caravan. Nowadays, I don't play as much, and don't plan as much. Now I feel like starting up DF2012 again and playing that fort... xD Except I need to find a way to save the present baroness or duchess, whichever she is, from succumbing to that infection....Anyway. DERAIL ACHIEVED, in the course of one post.
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