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[Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum]

Well, hello everyone! I'll read through the game and post something later, but I'm here!

[TheDarkStar]

Well, hello everyone! I'll read through the game and post something later, but I'm here!

Hello, Cptn! Questions:

Who do you think is scummy?
What do you think of Eyja's play (if he had any)?
What do you think of KP's lynching and GA's death?
Do you have anything else to note about the game?

[Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum]

Well, hello everyone! I'll read through the game and post something later, but I'm here!

Hello, Cptn! Questions:

Who do you think is scummy?
What do you think of Eyja's play (if he had any)?
What do you think of KP's lynching and GA's death?
Do you have anything else to note about the game?

Salsacookies looks the scummiest. He voted GayArchaea, said he would unvote but never did, and then GA got killed in the night.
Also:

Kilojoule Proton If you were a cop, I'd say i'm a saguero cactus. Would that put you in a prickly mood?

What is this supposed to mean? Are you saying you are scum here? Could you explain?

Eyja only made one post, and all it said was that he would post later. Kind of disappointing really, but at least it gave me a chance to play.

KP was not playing well, and I think his death was inevitable. I probably would have lynched him... He even asked if he could be on the scum team temporarily. And if he wasn't lynched, he would have been night killed for basically roleclaiming in one of his earliest posts.

GayArchaea is disappointing, he seemed like a pretty good player. Of course his deasth leaves the question, why was salsacookies voting him? He was one of the best town players.
But on the plus side, we have both ICs this game, unlike the last beginner's mafia, where one lurked and the other got killed night one.

[Worldmaster27]

Illgeo: Said he was going to post more, but seems to me that his current play reflects that of his first game. You need to post more. Scum lean for lurking.

Salsacookies: I honestly don't completely get what you're all grasping at. He voted GA, and made a dumb question, but I don't think that he'd leave his vote on GA if he was planning to kill him. However, this may have been a rookie mistake. This could also be mafia trying to frame someone else, but that's edging towards WIFOM territory. I don't like how the majority of his posts were seeming to try and cause confusion via WIFOM and recursive reasoning. He too is lurking, and needs to post more. Heavy scum lean for stated reasons, but I'll give him a chance to defend himself.

Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum: Welcome, I know you will be much more active than your predecessor, and I'm glad that you could join us. Even if you are scum. In any case, she has a slight scum lean due to Eyja's lurking.

Scripten: Actively scumhunting, and seems to know what he's doing. Town lean.

TheDarkStar: One of our ICs, he is moderately active and, to me at least, doesn't seem to be scumhunting as much as in our last game. Neutral read.

Jim Groovester: The other IC, he seems very straight to the point and, though his tongue is sharp, he has good advice and has been actively scumhunting in the time he's been here, far as I can tell. Town lean.

Everyone: Please post your full reads, whenever you're able. These are important, and don't be afraid of having different opinions than the consensus.

[Scripten]

Salsacookies: I honestly don't completely get what you're all grasping at. He voted GA, and made a dumb question, but I don't think that he'd leave his vote on GA if he was planning to kill him. However, this may have been a rookie mistake. This could also be mafia trying to frame someone else, but that's edging towards WIFOM territory. I don't like how the majority of his posts were seeming to try and cause confusion via WIFOM and recursive reasoning. He too is lurking, and needs to post more. Heavy scum lean for stated reasons, but I'll give him a chance to defend himself.

This is not something we should be discounting as a possibility. WIFOM is a sometimes futile path to go down, but just because something is an alternative explanation, that doesn't mean that it's impossible and shouldn't be considered.

[Jim Groovester]

Salsacookies: I notice that you voted GA here. Do you find it an interesting coincidence that he died in the night?

Do you have additional reasoning beyond just coincidence?

WIFOM is a sometimes futile path to go down, but just because something is an alternative explanation, that doesn't mean that it's impossible and shouldn't be considered.

Beginners make a bigger deal out of WIFOM than anybody else.

From experience and from observation, scumteams make really convoluted ploys infrequently at best.

Accurately guessing the nightkill reasoning is basically impossible. It's not really worth trying.

This is a pretty good post. Not particularly alignment-indicative, but it's good stuff. Lurkers are bad on either side.

I question your use of a compliment in this quote. Why did you feel the need to compliment Worldmaster27?

GayArchaea: Why are you voting 4maskwolf instead of KP? I am finding it telling that you aren't really trying to figure out who scum is, just trying to push a lynch on someone convenient.

(Btw, you only have to vote for someone once to have it count.)

Elaborate here. How is 4maskwolf a more convenient target than Kilojoule Proton considering that at this point KP was already ahead in votes?

Everyone: Please post your full reads, whenever you're able. These are important, and don't be afraid of having different opinions than the consensus.

This'll be really helpful.

llgeo - Noob. Kinda quiet.
Salsacookies - Noob. Not serious enough about mafia.
Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum - Eloquent noob. Not enough playtime to really get a read.
Worldmaster27 - Competent noob.
Scripten - Reasonably competent noob.
TheDarkStar - IC. Kinda quiet.
Jim Groovester - IC. Also town.

At this juncture I have no significant reads on any particular player.

Who do you think is scummy?

So who do you think is scummy?

Kilojoule Proton, why are you advocating the lynch of the person voting you for no other reason than that he is voting for you? Also, there's that townclaim there that really doesn't make you seem like you're town at all.

You voted Kilojoule Proton here. What was your reasoning against him, in total?

KP: Can you explain why you think that lynching someone who is contributing would help town? I'd also like to hear why you listed that it would be in your best interests to kill someone who was a "non-idiot."

I'm also curious about your reasoning against Kilojoule Proton.

I realize Kilojoule Proton did not play well, but I'm curious to know the reasons against considering that he made an implicit town power role claim.

Salsacookies looks the scummiest. He voted GayArchaea, said he would unvote but never did, and then GA got killed in the night.

Do you have any reasoning against him beyond coincidence?

[Scripten]

Salsacookies: I notice that you voted GA here. Do you find it an interesting coincidence that he died in the night?

Do you have additional reasoning beyond just coincidence?

What, for the night kill? Nah. Are you hunting for scum or power roles?

If you mean for my vote, Salsacookies has been active lurking like mad all game. I don't like the way he tossed out random votes and asked throwaway questions that never advanced the game state.

This is a pretty good post. Not particularly alignment-indicative, but it's good stuff. Lurkers are bad on either side.

I question your use of a compliment in this quote. Why did you feel the need to compliment Worldmaster27?

Because nothing kills a town better than half the townies lurking all game. The post doesn't say if he's town or scum, but it's a good point I wanted to reinforce.

GayArchaea: Why are you voting 4maskwolf instead of KP? I am finding it telling that you aren't really trying to figure out who scum is, just trying to push a lynch on someone convenient.

(Btw, you only have to vote for someone once to have it count.)

Elaborate here. How is 4maskwolf a more convenient target than Kilojoule Proton considering that at this point KP was already ahead in votes?

Lurkers are easy places to place votes, especially if you know that the leading wagon is town and don't want to be there when they flip.

By the way, I realize you didn't address a question to me, Jim, but I'd like to mention that KP's softclaim was obviously true in retrospect. When he made it, though, there's absolutely no way to verify it one way or another. Maybe by LyLo it would have mattered. Not sure if a toothless PR claim would be worth taking that risk.

Reads
llgeo - Scummy due to lurking. Somewhat a meta read, but last game I played with him, he was just like this and was scum.
Salsacookies - Hasn't contributed anything. Scummy, but I'm pretty sure my opinion is obvious.
Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum - Null. Need to see more interactions.
Worldmaster27 - Null leaning town. Makes good posts and reasoning is solid, but nothing alignment indicative.
Scripten - Town.
TheDarkStar - Quiet as he usually is, from what I've seen of him elsewhere. Null, but probably town.
Jim Groovester - Love his entrance. Pretty town to me. Course, he's an IC, so there's that requisite skepticism that he's just good scum.

[Illgeo]

Illgeo: You haven't been particularly active. I'm quite ready to vote you since this is almost exactly like the game we played together where you were scum. If you're town, I'd like to see you scumhunting harder. Who's scum?

Well, it means my meta is quite monotonic.
Reads:
Worldmaster: Feels pretty town. Although, there is underlaying suspicion because he too good for newbie.
Scripter: Had weird very different from last game feel at the beginning. Very harsh on lurkers. Townish
TheDarkStar: Mostly town. Miniscule suspicion for voting for claimed power role, but KJ was suspicious.
Salsacookies: Seems scummy. Feels like he's active lurking because of somewhat nonsesical posts.
Eyja/Cap: Too little information.
4maskwolf/Jim: Too little information, but seems like if he is scum, it will be hard to get.

[Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum]

Salsacookies looks the scummiest. He voted GayArchaea, said he would unvote but never did, and then GA got killed in the night.

Well,
Do you have any reasoning against him beyond coincidence?

The way he voted for a random person who seemed the most town, the randomness of all of his posts, the way he is confusing people by posting uselessness, his lurking for the second half of the first day.

Now, I'll go read through the game a few times.
Illgeo: Seemed to be doing the bare minimum for the first day, and posted less for the second half of the day. Not much to go on, and that makes him scummy.
Salsacookies: The scummiest person here I think. Random posts, confusing people with WIFOM, accusing people who seem townie for no reason...
Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum: It's me!
Worldmaster27: Seems town, but also seemed town during our last game. At least, until he slipped up and gave himself away. I'm suspicious, but probably town.
Scripten: Seems pretty town, same as Worldmaster.
TheDarkStar: Seems town, and is an IC? So that may just mean he is a good scum.
Jim Groovester: Well, says we are all noobs. Correct, but not very alignment indicative. Not much to go on really. Fourmask was unable to post very often, and didn't post much when he could. Probably town?

[Jim Groovester]

If you mean for my vote,

Yes, for the vote.

By the way, I realize you didn't address a question to me, Jim, but I'd like to mention that KP's softclaim was obviously true in retrospect. When he made it, though, there's absolutely no way to verify it one way or another. Maybe by LyLo it would have mattered. Not sure if a toothless PR claim would be worth taking that risk.

Yes, I know. But I'm still interested to know how it factored into their reasoning at the time.

reads

These are nice but what are you going to do to advance the game and discussion forward?

People being quiet and contributing nothing is exactly what this game doesn't need.

[Worldmaster27]

Jim: I didn't like his saying that it would be good to lynch active players, and that in the post above the one you quoted I didn't like that he first mentioned that lynching active members would be in his best interests. Putting "and also that of the town" in parentheses made it seem like it was an after thought, and was the thing that tipped my vote. Those were the main reasons, though I had missed his implication that he was a power role. I don't think it would have changed my vote, however.

[Worldmaster27]

Jim & Scripten: I find it interesting that you both apparently felt the need to claim in your reads that you were town. I'm of the opinion that someone's actions should speak for them, as far as alignment goes. Would you mind explaining why you did this?

[Jim Groovester]

Jim: I didn't like his saying that it would be good to lynch active players, and that in the post above the one you quoted I didn't like that he first mentioned that lynching active members would be in his best interests. Putting "and also that of the town" in parentheses made it seem like it was an after thought, and was the thing that tipped my vote. Those were the main reasons, though I had missed his implication that he was a power role. I don't think it would have changed my vote, however.

So what made you think he was scummy instead of just being bad?

Jim & Scripten: I find it interesting that you both apparently felt the need to claim in your reads that you were town. I'm of the opinion that someone's actions should speak for them, as far as alignment goes. Would you mind explaining why you did this?

Habit. It's a somewhat common thing to do in games outside of BMs. Nobody cares when in a list of reads people say they are town because everybody else recognizes that it's utterly meaningless. Neither there nor in here do I expect expect to convince anybody of my alignment with a single line statement in a collection of reads.

Of course, I'm not interested in convincing anybody of my alignment, I'm interested in, firstly, teaching everybody, and secondly, finding scum.

[Worldmaster27]

Jim: I didn't like his saying that it would be good to lynch active players, and that in the post above the one you quoted I didn't like that he first mentioned that lynching active members would be in his best interests. Putting "and also that of the town" in parentheses made it seem like it was an after thought, and was the thing that tipped my vote. Those were the main reasons, though I had missed his implication that he was a power role. I don't think it would have changed my vote, however.

So what made you think he was scummy instead of just being bad?

I didn't think that town, even bad town, would openly state that lynching active players is in their best interests and as an aside, the town's. There was the OMGUS on Scripten, and his earlier random votes without any scumhunting involved too, such as when he voted for Salsacookies.

I also didn't consider that he was town playing quite poorly much. :x

[Salsacookies]

I meant to unvote GA, and I thought I unvoted him when I said I would unvote him, so I assumed my vote no longer applied. Also, I tried to hard being confusing to not look like scum, and I was trying to be amusing, because I didn't take it seriously. Next time I play this, I will try to not incriminate myself and act like a clown.

Anyways.

If you said I was a cop, I would say no, whether I was or not. If I said so, I'd die by scum by next night.

Time to contribute.

Worldmaster27: What would you consider to be a scum, vs. a simple newb or an active lurker?

Everyone: I didn't know active lurking was a thing, could you explain it to me?