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[Wumpi]

Post here if you ever get a marriage. Post their traits and stuff.
I might set up a fort and lock couples in rooms like that. 100 dwarves would give me about 40 couples + 20 to feed and maintain the industries. Surely 1/40 would marry?

[Tacomagic]

I've got a marriage that happened in my current fort if it's of interest.  One of the two despises the idea of a family.

They have one son.

The important feature of both is that they are each set with ONLY the flag marry_male:true and marry_female:true (respectively).  The both the romance flags and the same-sex marriage flags on both dwarves are all set to false, allowing only heterosexual marriage as an option for them. 

I'm thinking that the other flags override this flag (either directly or simply by being easier to form romance relationships), which may make marriages far less frequent then they perhaps should be.

[Wumpi]

I thought marriages required romances to form first?
How do you check the flags like that? A large sampling of couples might support the theory that dwarves with romance flags can't marry.

[Tacomagic]

I thought marriages required romances to form first?
How do you check the flags like that? A large sampling of couples might support the theory that dwarves with romance flags can't marry.

You need DFHack.

Pull up the unit list, highlight the dwarf you want and enter the command:

Code: [Select]

[DFHack]# gui\gm-editor
The orientation flags are located in:  status > current_soul > orientation flags

Alternately, you can make a little one-off lua script with the following:

Code: [Select]

unit = dfhack.gui.getSelectedUnit().status.current_soul.orientation_flags
print('Romance Male:',unit.romance_male)
print('Marry Male:',unit.marry_male)
print('Romance Female:',unit.romance_female)
print('Marry-Female:',unit.marry_female)

Whenever you call the script it'll spit out the flags into the command window.

[MDFification]

I hear there's a dfhack script which forces all dwarves within compatible ages to pair off into heterosexual, child-producing marriages regardless of orientation. Can't remember its name though.

[Wumpi]

Thanks for the script. I checked about 60 dwarves, and I didn't have any that had both the lover and marry tags for any gender. More Marry than Lover, though.
Wish I could check the people in wishcities to see what was up. Maybe I just got some unlucky pairings or something.
Anyways, For anyone who is curious:

Bear's ultimate fate was rather gruesome. Elves and humans conquered Wishcities within a month after I retired it.

I might try this again using the editor to make sure I have a few pairs capable of marriage. I wonder if I should try to re-take wishcities?

[Mimodo]

You certainly should!

I think if this breeding stock doesn't work, I'll impregnate them, and then remove their children upon leaving their mother's arms, before atom smashing the useless excuses for creatures with reproductive instincts

[Skullsploder]

My version is really more of a creepy sex dungeon with nothing but food, booze, and beds

I take full credit for this idea

[MDFification]

Hey, you can't expand a city without dwarves to fill the houses! I think DwarvesMeet.com is a very relevant point of discussion considering how hard it is to get dwarves to marry.

I think it's a good time to remind the thread that plenty of migrants have been showing up but OP just kills them.  So the population can increase if he just decides to stop that.

[Wumpi]

Yes, but that is part of the experiment. I found lowering the pop cap to be easier than burrowing and smashing migrants every season, though.
The idea was to create a self-renewing population of dwarves that do not rely on migrants. I've never played a fort for more than one generation of dwarves, so I think it's an interesting idea to try to create a standard fort without migrants.

[Tacomagic]

Yes, but that is part of the experiment. I found lowering the pop cap to be easier than burrowing and smashing migrants every season, though.
The idea was to create a self-renewing population of dwarves that do not rely on migrants. I've never played a fort for more than one generation of dwarves, so I think it's an interesting idea to try to create a standard fort without migrants.

Something to try for the next attempt:

Before you unpause with the first 7, select the 4 that you want and force them have the flags for heterosexual marriage.  Built up a huge stockpile of food/spirits and let them idle for a while.  See if that does the trick.

In fact... I may go do that right now...

UPDATE:  Experimental Setup #1: No partying setup

Embarked with 7 dorfs and a huge compliment of food and beverage.  Checked all their flags before unpause.  4 of the 7 had singular, heterosexual marriage flags enabled right out of the gate.  Of the other three, one was bisexual with romance preference and no marriage desire.  One had heterosexual romance only.  And the last had heterosexual marriage and homosexual romance.  The three with mixed flags were romantically disabled to remove them from the pool of prospectives(sorry guys).  The other four were untouched.

All units were also checked for pre-existing romance or marriage.  None were found.  1 friendship existed between one of the breeding stock and one of the non-breeders.  This was assumed to not be an issue, but it was noted for tracking.

I set up a specific meeting area for everyone to go to (just in case the wagon is insufficient as a meeting area).

At this point, the game was allowed to run with everyone idling.  I checked in from time to time to see how things were going.

Observations:

After 1 season: no new friendships or relationships of any kind.

2 seasons: no change

3 seasons: no change

1st year: no change

6 total season: No new relationships.  (at this point, the fortress ran out of food).

Also of note:  There were social skill gains, but they were miniscule; indicating that there was a minimal amount of actual socializing going on.

Possible explanations:

1) No relationships are allowed during the first year (Unlikely)

2) It takes longer than 1 year to form an relationship (possible, but unlikely)

3) Relationships only form when idling underground (Very Unlikely)

4) Relationships cannot form in an activity zone, but rather need a statue garden or dining room set to meeting hall. (Somewhat likely)

5) Relationships only form during parties. (Highly likely given the social gains we see at parties)

6) Relationships only form when the fort is actually active. (Possible.  If social gains are only made at the start of socialization, then high turn-over of the idle population may increase gains by allowing more instances of short social interactions).

7) Relationships only form when in a room above a certain value.  (Possible.  It may be that happier dwarves socialize more often or have bigger gains.)

I'm going to let this experiment go until they completely run out of food (another year, possibly 18 months), then move onto the second one: testing underground meeting areas.

[Mimodo]

Does a roof count as underground? If not, then I can disprove explanation 3. Most likely is the kind of meeting area.

Before I had the food chute set up, I disabled their dining room to stop my actual dwarves idling in there whilst restocking supplies.

Kept checking up on them, with no relationships before I realised a year later that I forgot to re-activate it. Shortly after, many friendships blossomed

[Tacomagic]

Does a roof count as underground? If not, then I can disprove explanation 3. Most likely is the kind of meeting area.

Before I had the food chute set up, I disabled their dining room to stop my actual dwarves idling in there whilst restocking supplies.

Kept checking up on them, with no relationships before I realised a year later that I forgot to re-activate it. Shortly after, many friendships blossomed

That's my suspicion too, however, it could also be that dwarves in better moods form friendships faster.  My next experiment will be with a finely appointed room with tables, chairs, statues, a well, etc, and see if an activity zone works better in those circumstances.

My major suspicion is that relationships only actually form during parties, but I'll have to do more work on that.

[Tacomagic]

So, there was a very clear difference between experiment 1 and Experiment 2.

Setup:
Same as above with the following changes:
Meeting zone was in a stone room with tables, chairs, statues, and lots of engravings.
Each dwarf was kept fairly happy.
Each dwarf was given light work to do so that their idle time only took up about 50% of their total time.

The result after 18 months:
1 Married Couple
1 Lover copule
Most of the rest were friends with each other, with a few exceptions.

After 24 months:
1 more marriage and the first birth from the initial married couple.

Here are some observations:

1)  Dwarves must be friends before they will proceed to lover status.  And they must be lovers before becoming married.

2) It takes about 6 months of the intermittent idling to go from friends to lovers.  It takes about another 3-6 months to go from lovers to married.

3) By putting the meeting area in a place with chairs, tables, statues, and stone engraving (no dining room or statue room), people became friends very quickly.  This is either because they socialize more when indoors, or because furnishing is important to making friends.

4) It may also have something to do with being partially busy.  Rather than spending 18 months doing nothing but idling, I was giving light work to all my dwarves.  After 18 months, most of the dwarvers were friends with each other (though there was one grudge that never improved, and 2 dwarves that never made friends).

5) Parties are not necessary.  There were 0 parties.

6) Grudges might be forever.  Going to let the test run a little longer and see if it sticks around.

[Tacomagic]

Found some more important info.  There are two traits which are devastating for getting marriages:

Does not easily make friends
Does not easily fall in love

Any dwarf with either trait can take several years to pair off with another, if ever.

It also looks like these might prevent easy marriage:

Is quick to form negative views on things
Is dour as a rule
Values Independance

On another note: so... much... vomit...