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[khearn]

So I'm starting a new fort, and I've found a nice location. While checking the different options for the dwarf civilization to start in, I find one that has the usual red ----- for goblins and War with the elves. But there is another that is at peace with the elves and War with the goblins.

So What's the difference between ---- and War with the goblins? Is it going to provide enough Fun to make up for not being at war with the elves?

    Keith

[Astrid]

Choose the one which is at war with the Goblins and then offer the Elven traders your wooden crutches a few times until you are at war with them as well. Evolia, Problem solved...

[FallenAngel]

The primary difference between being marked ----- and War is that ----- means they are baby snatchers, and won't stage full-on attacks until your population becomes sufficient; you'll be getting snatchers and small ambush groups, but nothing big for a while.
War with the elves only removes a source of unusual creatures and an extra source of fabric and wood - you just need a decent military, with at least bronze weapons to fare well. Elves have strength in numbers. Go for strength in, well, strength.
Against the goblins in a War-class relationship, they'll send larger groups sooner, I think. Much more Fun, but try setting up a drawbridge to block entrance early on, in case of a massive siege before you're ready - walls made of blocks are best for keeping them out, too.
Really depends on how much Fun you want and what kind of Fun. Do you want a few one-man armies or anti-siege planning, with powerful defense systems and a large military for backup?

[Findulidas]

Elves are easy except for the marksmen, the mounts and the extremely rare legendary fighters though. This is simply because they only use wood items, which obviously suck as armor and melee weapons.

[k33n]

Elves seem like pushovers until you get a unicorn horse archer squad led by a legendary archer elf princess.

[Maw]

Everyone.


Or is this a trick question?

[Thisfox]

Much more Fun, but try setting up a drawbridge to block entrance early on, in case of a massive siege before you're ready - walls made of blocks are best for keeping them out, too.

...Walls made of blocks are different to walls made of rocks? I did not know this. I'd better go !!research!!...

[FallenAngel]

Much more Fun, but try setting up a drawbridge to block entrance early on, in case of a massive siege before you're ready - walls made of blocks are best for keeping them out, too.

...Walls made of blocks are different to walls made of rocks? I did not know this. I'd better go !!research!!...

Before 0.40.01, they were merely more efficient in terms of material and time. However, once climbing was introduced, walls made of blocks are the same as smoothed walls, and are difficult to climb.

[lazygun]

I remember being at war with the elves in an earlier version (without the vast caverns and only 15 z-levels depth.) Mounted archer ambush squads made it dangerous to be outside.

[Trollhammaren]

Elves, despite having crappy wooden weapons, are ten kinds of dangerous due to their disposition to ambush civilians. I'd say it's more of a challenge than just more goblins.

Disclaimer: haven't been at war with elves in .40. It's possible they're now wimps that become scared and run away with tears in their eyes as soon as they exit stealth, or that they now scare your militia to death.

[wuphonsreach]

Before 0.40.01, they were merely more efficient in terms of material and time. However, once climbing was introduced, walls made of blocks are the same as smoothed walls, and are difficult to climb.

I'll accept that walls made of blocks are better in terms of climbing, but where is the science that they are as good as smoothed natural rock (which is supposed to be impossible - according to the wiki, while block walls are just "hard").

[FallenAngel]

I'm not 100% sure on that, by the way.
They're certainly very efficient at keeping out climbing invaders, but I do advise having tall walls. Preferably two sets of tall walls. With a moat. Full of magma. With the internal walls fitted with archer platform things.

[khearn]

I build my walls 2 layers high, made from blocks, then I have a ring of fortifications on the third layer outside the second layer.

Side view:

Code: [Select]

F         F
 W       W
 W       W
############
F - Fortification
W - Wall
# - Ground

I haven't had any attacker able to climb that yet.

You need a bit of scaffolding to build the corner fortifications, I just build a floor out from the wall at the corner, build the corner fortification and the one next to it, then deconstruct the floor.

Third layer, top view:

Code: [Select]

     +F
═════╗F
     ║

+ - Floor
F - Fortification
═,╗,║ - Top of second layer wall

I suspect that with the overhang, even rough stone walls would be sufficient. But it's quicker to build with blocks (they weigh less, so they get hauled quicker).

   Keith

[wuphonsreach]

2-story tall stone block walls are a minimum - 1-story tall wall can easily be jumped over (they jump grab the top of the wall, pull themselves over). 

I'm sort of 'meh' on the overhang using fortifications even though it works perfectly.  But that's a style complaint - I'd probably mostly do overhanging walls, just to gain an extra few tiles of space for the upper stories of the main keep.

For dry moats, I channel it out, then d-d into the sides and construct block walls.  Then channel down another layer and do it again.  That puts the moat 2Z below the surface, with 2Z of block walls.  A paved road also gets put in the bottom of the dry moat to deal with tree saplings.