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[SlyStalker]

Quality vs Quantity? In the words of Joseph Stalin (or Iosif Dzhugashvili if you prefer), "Quantity has a quality all its own." However, does this hold true in DF? Personally, I'm leaning towards a few professionals armed and armoured sufficiently backed by crossbow-wielding conscripts, but I'm not such an experienced player myself, so thoughts?

[pisskop]

Quality vs Quantity? In the words of Joseph Stalin (or Iosif Dzhugashvili if you prefer), "Quantity has a quality all its own." However, does this hold true in DF? Personally, I'm leaning towards a few professionals armed and armoured sufficiently backed by crossbow-wielding conscripts, but I'm not such an experienced player myself, so thoughts?

DF, being a game of numbers, will always value quality more.  You are a defender,  You are subjected to psychological warfare and all manner of physical torment.  You are a slow, clumsy dwarf.  Your job is essentially finding way to extend each life you own, to trap hallways and use animals to supplement yourself.

[SlyStalker]

But then the big question for me is: Is it even remotely possible for a completely unskilled dwarf to cause any sort of wound to a dwarf with every combat skill necessary (weapon, fighting, dodging, shield, armour) Legendary (+5)? Because if it isn't, conscripts are redundant. However, if it is possible, then maybe you can drown that goblin general or dragon in bolts fired from a hastily raised militia.

[pisskop]

But then the big question for me is: Is it even remotely possible for a completely unskilled dwarf to cause any sort of wound to a dwarf with every combat skill necessary (weapon, fighting, dodging, shield, armour) Legendary (+5)? Because if it isn't, conscripts are redundant. However, if it is possible, then maybe you can drown that goblin general or dragon in bolts fired from a hastily raised militia.

Training makes for accidents.  And all the training in the world wont prepare you for the horrors of actual combat,  They call it 'dropout rate'.  Since DF cant simulate dropout rate you need to simulate it with death.  Sending them to training and then to fight monsters costs lives.


But dropping a pretense, yes, your part-time military is weaker than a dedicated staff.  But its also less cheesy than a drawbridge.

[SlyStalker]

I see. So overall your opinion is still that professionals beat conscripts any time?

[pisskop]

I see. So overall your opinion is still that professionals beat conscripts any time?

1 legend ~= 50 conscripts.  But numbers will win, given enough time.  You dont need to be precise when you have massed arrows.

[Max™]

Martial Trances are things that happen, and while you can't plan for them, they are rarely anything but amazing.

I've gone through and been hyper paranoid, built up a decked out pimped out highly trained militia, cracked open the caverns and had a miner and a couple of herbalists team up to curbstomp a forgotten beast as it shows up, with only one death that may have been related to trying to catch a baby that she popped out mid-battle (on a 15 z up/down staircase no less) and the only thing left for the military to do was kick at a couple of crundles poking around the area by the time they arrived.

I like to make sure I have at least two fully armored dorfs, I like to have a hammer dorf and one with a good axe or a converted miner as there is a little known feature of mining picks, they have two speeds: kill, and kill faster. None of that silly "slaps the beast with the flat of the blade nonsense", just page after page of "the severed part flies off in an arc" spam.

[Edmus]

Enough highly skilled warriors can face down hell itself. Rookies will just melt, figuratively and literally now that morale exists.

[Boltgun]

Quality, always, but a spam of crossbows helps a lot as long as you make sure they don't reach melee. They cause the enemy to dodge which slow them down and, with luck, causes accidents.

Dwarves being dwarves you must have as little losses as possible. Their psychic powers make them unmanageable as soon as their relatives dies.

[Findulidas]

Rely on dogs and traps until they are proficient. Them they are pretty decent at facing most things. Thats the general guideline I follow and its serves me well. Besides 30 cagetraps followed by a hallway of serrated iron blades x5 makes short work of everything not trapavoid.

[SlyStalker]

So at what skill level should I consider my soldiers to be ready for combat against enemies like goblins?

[pisskop]

So at what skill level should I consider my soldiers to be ready for combat against enemies like goblins?

Competent weapons.  imo.  Before then they can live but its a crapshoot.  Even this is a risk of sorts.  Its always dependent on the situation, and not something I want to readily quantify.
You have to have experience to wager on.  You cant get it without success (and fail).

If my experience has taught me anything its that, when in doubt, turtle up.  Separate the enemy, take advantage of distractions (like megabeasts or caravans) and be prepared to accept loses.  Combat in DF is very random.

And mind the special abilities of monsters.  Those are what kill you.

[SlyStalker]

I've always waited until at least Level 10 in weapons (either Great or Master). Yes, this is probably a mistake, but Competent level seems a little too low. I doubt they can stand up to goblins with Competent.

[pisskop]

I've always waited until at least Level 10 in weapons (either Great or Master). Yes, this is probably a mistake, but Competent level seems a little too low. I doubt they can stand up to goblins with Competent.

What make a competent goblin better than a competent dwarf?  most rank and file military enemies a fort will see will be at or below competent.

[shlorf]

It depends on your dwarfs equipment, but i think dwarfs should have the upper hand most of the time.
The usual goblin siege just brings ordinary soldiers with metal helms and breastplates the rest leather and cloth.
If your militia is armored head to toe even in just copper they're already at a big advantage from not getting their arms and legs severed by pretty much any edged weapon attack. Once your troops are armored with steel or better they will only have to worry about bolts and blunt weapons pretty much.
Now in df2014 i haven't seen the proper strong sieges yet (with mounts and goblin weaponmasters), but from what i remember by that time you'd want legendary soldiers to take on those lashermasters, etc..