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Author Topic: Blood Eagle  (Read 9922 times)

StupidElves

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Blood Eagle
« on: October 01, 2014, 05:21:40 pm »

The blood eagle was a technique used by the vikings to torture people. They would cut the victim open, remove the bottom two ribs, and pull the lungs out. As the victim breathed the lungs would flap and spray blood everywhere, the lungs looked like an eagle. Hence the name.

Is it possible to do this to people in DF?
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Miuramir

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Re: Blood Eagle
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2014, 06:20:59 pm »

The blood eagle was a technique used by the vikings to torture people. They would cut the victim open, remove the bottom two ribs, and pull the lungs out. As the victim breathed the lungs would flap and spray blood everywhere, the lungs looked like an eagle. Hence the name.

Is it possible to do this to people in DF?

Short answer: No. Like most specific alleged historical tortures, there is no support for it in DF.  Dwarves, the only playable fortress civ in stock DF, are entirely opposed to torture for any reason (check the entity Ethics files), which probably influences the lack of suitable mechanics. 

Longer:  There are a number of problems with your post.  To start with, there is significant question as to whether the practice is actually historical at all; there are several reasons to believe that most if not all reports are the result of either poetic license or later (mostly Christian) writers attempting to emphasize how primitive earlier times were.  AFAIK all of accounts usually referred to were written at least three hundred years after the events that they claim to represent, generally by individuals in significantly different cultures. 

Like horned helmets, this seems to be something that owes most of its memetic existence from a long series of poorly researched or simply made up fictional references; the practice, even if it ever was performed at all, would have been extremely rare. 

Additionally, in the few accounts that seem like they *might* have some basis in history, the practice sees to be described in terms of sacrifice to a god, not as torture per se; a method to dedicate a kill and victory to Odin, for example.  In DF terms, this sounds more like the sort of thing you would expect from a demon posing as a deity; although "torture" is one of the 130 possible spheres for a deity. 

Finally, I'm not familiar with traditional descriptions matching yours.  The usual focus in the allegedly historical accounts is on carving on the back; the "wings" are supposedly provided by the ribs, which are entirely cut away. 
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StupidElves

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Re: Blood Eagle
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2014, 07:33:57 pm »

I'm not hearing a "No" for adventure mode.
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PDF urist master

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Re: Blood Eagle
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2014, 07:35:46 pm »

this is the first time a dwarf fortress thread has ever disgusted me. And i've read the merperson thread.

go ahead and try it after all:

death is inevitable...begone fear!
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StupidElves

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Re: Blood Eagle
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2014, 08:55:28 pm »

Well. First testing. I managed to get the lungs to come out, but that involved them being ripped out. The person died without oxygen. Pity. I wanted to see if he would divulge information that he otherwise wouldn't if I had managed to keep him alive.

Okay, next test. It's really hard to get people to stay still when you want to try this stuff. I removed the skin off of this one elf's chest and I tried to move the lungs downward. I don't think that DF counts ribs as, well, ribs. So it's difficult to figure out which bones I need to remove. Anyways, the lungs were ripped out, and the guy died. Again. Though I did manage to talk to talk to him, he spat at me. Feisty little bugger.
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LeoCean

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Re: Blood Eagle
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2014, 10:47:07 pm »

People don't live for long when this happens to them for good reason it is a way for them to be forgiven by the gods, if they scream out before death they wouldn't go to Valhalla and if they kept silent they'd get to go. Maybe if you gave them an extra pair of lungs you could talk to them.

I don't think it was a way to torture people for information, more of an execution.
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Dyret

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Re: Blood Eagle
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2014, 01:00:42 am »

It was probably something some guy made up for a saga, like Miuramir said, it's not really anatomically viable. Not that I would discourage science on the subject.

Okay, next test. It's really hard to get people to stay still when you want to try this stuff.

Try choking them or breaking a few bones, that usually helps.
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StupidElves

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Re: Blood Eagle
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2014, 10:22:19 am »

I wonder if in the next update, the new emotions all allow for more forms of torture to allow people to give you information. Also, should goblins kidnap people and torture them? Perhaps an adventurer could be knocked out and taken to a Dark Pit to be tortured for a while? That could be Fun.
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Button

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Re: Blood Eagle
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2014, 10:39:25 am »

IRL, torture isn't really an effective method of gathering information. Someone who's being tortured will give you tons of false positives - they'll say whatever they think you want to hear.

What torture has been good for, historically, is extracting false confessions.
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jwhite.df

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Re: Blood Eagle
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2014, 01:07:55 am »

WTF
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Dyret

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Re: Blood Eagle
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2014, 04:48:37 am »

WTF

He wants to murder people horribly in fun and unusual ways. You'll get used to it.
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StupidElves

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Re: Blood Eagle
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2014, 11:40:12 am »

Oh, it's not that I want to. It's that I want to know if I can replicate these things and I want to see what will happen if I manage to do it.
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superbob

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Re: Blood Eagle
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2014, 03:32:30 am »

What torture has been good for, historically, is extracting false confessions.

So historically, it would make sense to accuse the victimstest subjects of being night creatures after removing their skin. To find out how many body parts have to be removed until they say yes. You know... For !!SCIENCE!!
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pisskop

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Re: Blood Eagle
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2014, 03:38:04 am »

Im pretty sure this isnt a thing you can do.

Maybe you should ask Toady how he got the intestines to dangle about.  But Im sure this is exactly why he didnt make a token for that.

AFA disgusting:  Mildly, but this game has all form of worldgen tortures, from quartering to Crucifixion to buried alive to impaled alive.  And a few others, Im sure.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 03:40:10 am by pisskop »
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Meph

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Re: Blood Eagle
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2014, 07:25:29 am »

I think I only heard about this in one of the Hannibal Lecter books, but its not a real historical thing.
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