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[Max™]

Yeah, I like the "tileset" and "tileset with edited raws" distinctions myself.

Using layers and such in GIMP is definitely easy enough, I've got a habit of opening anything as layers and just toggling the visibility of the different parts as I work.

I didn't even think about the edited raws being why a couple of the tiles from the Bisasam tweak I tried to set up weren't working. Easy enough to get them in there though, just put the one with the tiles you like under the main one you want to work with, highlight the section on one layer, click the other layer, cut, copy from the first one and paste, anchor it, export to png, poof. Much easier than what I tried to do at first, editing the walls to be curved slightly by hand... mad props to you folks doing this stuff by hand!

[CLA]

As per http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/40d_Talk:Graphics_set_repository#graphics_sets_vs_object_tilesets

[...] objects are not currently graphically supported yet, and only consist of living entities, it should rather be called 'creature tilesets'. I would wait until Toady adds "Core50, TILESET SUPPORT, (Future): Allow graphical tiles to be used for all game objects" before changing the name to anything. After that, there could be a multitude of tilesets such as 'object tilesets','creature tilesets','terrain tilesets' ect. [...]

and the above comments from Vherid and Taffer, my current plan for creature graphics would look like this:

• creature graphics have their own section on the 'Graphics' page (as it is now in the user talk page)
• new page: 'graphic set' analogous to the 'tileset' page
• intro explains that graphic set is any tileset/sprite sheet/bitmap (which term should I use? I'm leaning towards tileset) that uses [GRAPHICS:YES]; that currently only creatures support this but it's eventually planned for all objects (with link to dev page or the 40d talk page)
• the only main section is creature graphics with detailed explanation of the syntax (I'll adhere to http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/40d_Talk:Graphics_set_repository#Questions:_making_your_own_set as guideline) and so on
• note/small section at the bottom about TWBT and DFhack with link to http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Utilities#Twbt (doesn't exist yet).

[Rydel]

I noticed that the current Phoebus set uses ANIMATED as a profession, while the wiki lists it as a texture, so the Creature Texture Token page may be out of date and should be corrected along with this.

[CLA]

So the Graphic set and Graphics pages now exist!

There's still a lot missing (see the updated OP and my user talk page) though, and even in the existing syntax I didn't cover everything.
Some things I'm not sure about in the syntax:

• What's the current status with ZOMBIE, SKELETON and ANIMATED? Only ANIMATED still exists, right? How does ghost work again? Like a profession?
• In [DEFAULT:MYDWARVES:0:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT] and [STANDARD:MYDWARVES:1:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT], What does DEFAULT and STANDARD stand for? I assume of them is for professions that don't have a graphic assigned, but which one? And what about the other?
• For the state, are there valid values other than DEFAULT, ANIMATED and ADVENTURER?
• Are TRAINED_HUNTER and TRAINED_WAR still existing separately and are they only used by DOG? If not, which tags in the raw decide which graphics can be used? From what I can see, only [TRAINABLE] is in the raws.

Generally, I assume there are still some errors in the pages, and I'd appreciate if someone could verify the factual accuracy as well as correct any spelling errors and awkward wording.

I'm working on a basic photoshop tutorial right now;in the meantime, if anyone wants to help, the graphic set page would benefit from 2 tables:
One with professions (list should be in graphics_example.txt)
One with creatures and the name they have in the raws. I suggest to use a different background color for creatures that have a non-standard name in the raws (such as missing underscores or birds without BIRD_ prefix) to draw attention to them as possible sources of mistakes.


Eventually, it would be nice to have premade template text files that contain skeleton entries for all creatures where you only have to insert the coordinates. This would ideally include correctly named .png files in the correct dimensions with a debug layer that displays the coordinates. You'd only have to make a new layer, draw your creatures and export the png with the debug layer invisible.

Question is, how would one group the creatures? Civs are trivial, but what about animals? By biome? Separate file for giant and -men variants or put it together with the creatures?
If anyone wants to tackle that, please go ahead.

[burned]

• What's the current status with ZOMBIE, SKELETON and ANIMATED? Only ANIMATED still exists, right? How does ghost work again? Like a profession?
• In [DEFAULT:MYDWARVES:0:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT] and [STANDARD:MYDWARVES:1:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT], What does DEFAULT and STANDARD stand for? I assume of them is for professions that don't have a graphic assigned, but which one? And what about the other?
• For the state, are there valid values other than DEFAULT, ANIMATED and ADVENTURER?
• Are TRAINED_HUNTER and TRAINED_WAR still existing separately and are they only used by DOG? If not, which tags in the raw decide which graphics can be used? From what I can see, only [TRAINABLE] is in the raws.

ANIMATED replaced SKELETON and ZOMBIE, yes. The GHOST token is used in the same way as ANIMATED (e.g. [GHOST:MYDWARVES:12:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]).

I know Peasants will use the STANDARD graphic and it will also be the "default" creature graphic in the Object Testing Arena, so I am not sure what the labeled DEFAULT graphic is used for, if at all.

These are the tokens that are used outside of the professions.

This has a list of the animals you can train for hunting/war.

Generally, I assume there are still some errors in the pages, and I'd appreciate if someone could verify the factual accuracy as well as correct any spelling errors and awkward wording.

They must have the same tile size as the main tileset, but the number of tiles and their spatial arrangement doesn't matter (within reasonable limits, see below).

In most cases you probably want your character tileset to match the tile size of your creature tileset, but the creature tileset does NOT have to have the same tile size as the character tileset. For example you could use a 24x24 character tileset with a 12x12 creature tileset if your grid init settings reflect 0 for both X and Y (default); if your texture parameter is set to "NEAREST" (not default). It works much like resampling an image size in photoshop using nearest neighbor.

[CLA]

Thank you, burned!

ANIMATED replaced SKELETON and ZOMBIE, yes. The GHOST token is used in the same way as ANIMATED (e.g. [GHOST:MYDWARVES:12:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]).

Wait, the first DEFAULT is used for that? I thought the one at the end is the one. [DEFAULT:MYDWARVES:12:0:AS_IS:GHOST] is what I expected.

These are the tokens that are used outside of the professions.

Great, thanks for that link. I will add the table to the graphic set page when I get to it.

This has a list of the animals you can train for hunting/war.

So this part

Code: [Select]

       [TRAINED_HUNTER:MYANIMALS:4:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT] ← TRAINED_HUNTER profession only works with animals that have the [TRAINABLE] tag.
       [TRAINED_WAR:MYANIMALS:5:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT] ← TRAINED_WAR profession only works with animals that have the [TRAINABLE] tag.
is correct, right?

if your grid init settings reflect 0 for both X and Y (default)

Could you elaborate on that? Or better yet, add it yourself under notes.

[Dirst]

Slight correction:

       [TRAINED_HUNTER:MYANIMALS:4:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT] ← TRAINED_HUNTER profession only works with animals that have the [TRAINABLE] or [TRAINABLE_HUNTING] tag.
       [TRAINED_WAR:MYANIMALS:5:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT] ← TRAINED_WAR profession only works with animals that have the [TRAINABLE] or [TRAINABLE_WAR] tag.

Also changed on the wiki.

[burned]

ANIMATED replaced SKELETON and ZOMBIE, yes. The GHOST token is used in the same way as ANIMATED (e.g. [GHOST:MYDWARVES:12:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]).

Wait, the first DEFAULT is used for that? I thought the one at the end is the one. [DEFAULT:MYDWARVES:12:0:AS_IS:GHOST] is what I expected.

Right, I originally thought it should be the last DEFAULT as well. The only reason I knew it was reversed was because of geoduck who says he got it from Phoebus' txt files.

if your grid init settings reflect 0 for both X and Y (default)

Could you elaborate on that? Or better yet, add it yourself under notes.

Hrm. I am intimidated by the idea of editing the wiki, but I'll give the note a shot (below). Perhaps someone with more knowledge than myself could explain it better.

Prior to the SDL version of 40d you had to worry about everything mentioned on the custom grid page, which lead to things like the Dwarf Fortress Custom Grid Calculator. The custom grid information is still relevant if you use the legacy version of DF, but in 40d19 "The grid size [was] autogenerated on startup; such init.txt settings [were] ignored " if you left them at 0,0.

In other words, x and y at zero will calculate the numbers for you.

[CLA]

Right, I originally thought it should be the last DEFAULT as well. The only reason I knew it was reversed was because of geoduck who says he got it from Phoebus' txt files.

Does that apply to GHOST (i.e. it's a "profession"), or to all creature texture tokens? Looking at my own graphic set, they're all set to the first DEFAULT, except GHOST, which I put on the first and second. Fuck me if I remember why.

Hrm. I am intimidated by the idea of editing the wiki, but I'll give the note a shot (below). Perhaps someone with more knowledge than myself could explain it better.

Prior to the SDL version of 40d you had to worry about everything mentioned on the custom grid page, which lead to things like the Dwarf Fortress Custom Grid Calculator. The custom grid information is still relevant if you use the legacy version of DF, but in 40d19 "The grid size [was] autogenerated on startup; such init.txt settings [were] ignored " if you left them at 0,0.

In other words, x and y at zero will calculate the numbers for you.

Ahhhh, that grid. If you don't edit the wiki in the end, don't worry, I'll write something down.

@Dirst
Great, thanks.

[burned]

Right, I originally thought it should be the last DEFAULT as well. The only reason I knew it was reversed was because of geoduck who says he got it from Phoebus' txt files.

Does that apply to GHOST (i.e. it's a "profession"), or to all creature texture tokens? Looking at my own graphic set, they're all set to the first DEFAULT, except GHOST, which I put on the first and second. Fuck me if I remember why.

GHOST is first as well, but ADVENTURER, LAW_ENFORCE, and TAX_ESCORT are the last entry with their profession listed first.

[CLA]

Thanks for the clarification, burned.

I finished the first version of the tutorial and I think it's a bit too complicated, long winded, and/or could use some better formatting.

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/User_talk:CLA#Editing_a_tileset

Right now, I'm thinking it's better to make the tutorial simpler by taking out the non-destructive parts. I.e. instead of copy part of layer, mask original, draw on new layer; just: erase icon, draw new icon, save.

The whole thing about layers, masks, organization, etc would then go in a new section called "good practices" or whatever right below. After that, the advanced stuff about tile magic.
What do you think? Any other comments on the tutorial?

Edit: added table with texture and profession tokens to the graphic set page. Which Civ uses which professions is still missing If anyone knows about it, please add it. Creature table isn't done yet either.

[Rydel]

I noticed that the instructions are very specific to Photoshop.  They should probably be more general; Currently a lot of the space is taken use by listing specific menus. You assume non-Photoshop users are familiar with their software enough to figure these out, but not the Photoshop users.  It seems like the opposite would be true, that someone who spent over $100 on their art software is more likely to be someone who uses it frequently that someone using free software, like GrpahicsGale, GIMP, or Paint.net.

The instructions should probably focus on the Dwarf Fortress Parts of tile creation, rather than the more general art technique parts and how to use your software.  Right now, the section is rather bloated with general Photoshop tips, which is also where a lot of those best practices would fall under.  Focusing on the Dwarf Fortress parts will simplify the article while focusing on the parts someone would be checking a Dwarf Fortress website for.

[CLA]

I noticed that the instructions are very specific to Photoshop.  They should probably be more general; Currently a lot of the space is taken use by listing specific menus. You assume non-Photoshop users are familiar with their software enough to figure these out, but not the Photoshop users.  It seems like the opposite would be true, that someone who spent over $100 on their art software is more likely to be someone who uses it frequently that someone using free software, like GrpahicsGale, GIMP, or Paint.net.

The instructions should probably focus on the Dwarf Fortress Parts of tile creation, rather than the more general art technique parts and how to use your software.  Right now, the section is rather bloated with general Photoshop tips, which is also where a lot of those best practices would fall under.  Focusing on the Dwarf Fortress parts will simplify the article while focusing on the parts someone would be checking a Dwarf Fortress website for.

Good points, thanks. I'll see if I can rewrite it some time next week.

I added a creature table to the graphic set page. By now, the Graphic set page is fairly complete. It could use better formatting in some cases, there undoubtedly still are errors/mistakes, and I still want to see some templates, but overall, this should do for Graphic set documentation.

[burned]

The instructions should probably focus on the Dwarf Fortress Parts of tile creation, rather than the more general art technique parts and how to use your software.  Right now, the section is rather bloated with general Photoshop tips, which is also where a lot of those best practices would fall under.  Focusing on the Dwarf Fortress parts will simplify the article while focusing on the parts someone would be checking a Dwarf Fortress website for.

I agree. The photoshop/GIMP/whatever tutorial/tips should be excised from any page that deals with DF specifics. Perhaps it could have it's own section much like a third party utility might have it's own page or just a link to a forum thread/website/whatever with the tutorial outside the wiki?

While I believe that the tutorial could benefit some, I know that I would be frustrated if I found a photoshop tutorial crammed into the information I was seeking about DF; possibly annoyed that I would have to read through it anyway to make sure that what I was looking for wasn't hidden inside the tutorial itself.

Also, the graphics_example.txt profession tokens are incomplete.

To prevent this post from sounding overly critical, you've done a fantastic job in providing the information on these pages that were previously "hidden knowledge" so to speak.

[CLA]

Perhaps [the photoshop sections] could have it's own section much like a third party utility might have it's own page or just a link to a forum thread/website/whatever with the tutorial outside the wiki?

Yeah, I thought about it in the beginning and had ideas to just tell people to google for general tutorials.
In the end I went for the step by step guide since I had it written out already (had to wait 2 hours for something a few days ago and was bored...). And I got some good feedback now.

the graphics_example.txt profession tokens are incomplete.

Ah, great that you mention it. from a quick glance over the raws, the professions seem to be missing the medical jobs and a few others recently added. I updated the wiki. Anything I missed? Entity tokens are incomplete, too, but I knew that. Is the entity_default.txt raw file a complete list for both? Are all positions under the LAND_HOLDER section relevant for graphics? Do they apply to all Civs, or only Dwarves? The other Civs don't seem to have entries regarding those positions.

To prevent this post from sounding overly critical [...]

Please, don't worry; Criticism and feedback were the biggest reason I made this thread in the first place. Criticism is always welcome. Don't feel obligated to make your post sound more neutral by adding compliments. Thanks for the kind words, anyway.