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Author Topic: Aquifer Pierce Pump-Stack Method Tutorial  (Read 6294 times)

Tacomagic

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Re: Aquifer Pierce Pump-Stack Method Tutorial
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2014, 08:48:23 am »

SUCCESS!!!!!!

I made it. I know it was only a two level aquifer, and not particularly spectacular in any way, but it's a great sense of achievement. A personal best. And as a reward on the underside: two more levels down and it's limonite mixed with bituminous coal! My dwarves are going nuts digging that stuff out. We're going to have some serious armour soon as I can find some goddamn marble or something.
Huzzah!  I know so well the feeling of finally getting through an aquifer.  It's like opening a present, and the gift is ore!

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Stuff that scared me the hell out: (And stuff I did/assumed wrong)

1. When the aquifer drained, it filled that drainpipe 7/7 all the way out, and I honestly thought it was going to fill, and start bubbling up, like it stormwater out of a drain. Terrifying! Also, it took an amazing number of cancellations to get the walls done on the lower level of the staircase. I don't really know why. Was I meant to turn off the pumps? I thought that might be it. Anyhow, I took that as PROOF that the WATER WAS RISING!  :'(
Pumps still running should have been fine, I always wait until after I've fully pierced and walled before I turn off the pumps.

Hmm, never actually had this happen.  Usually the pressure from falling keeps everything at the lowest level.  Was your drainage shaft the same dimentions as your staircase?  Were you draining into the caves or off the side of the map?  How many levels down did you dig your drain pipe?  Not really sure what happened if it startd to fill the shaft with water.  Usually only the level of the drain fills up to 7/7 and the rest of the shaft is almost empty.

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2. Taking down the waterwheel. There are plenty of tutorials explaining how to build a waterwheel. There are none explaining how to take it DOWN, more than a brief warning that it can fall. So I tried to stop it spinning first. That... that didn't work out too well, but no one was actually injured, as my hospital is still empty. So yeah. I think next time I'll try deconstructing it whilst it is spinning. Oops. :-[

You're on the right track there, deconstructing it while spinning is indeed the best way to do it so that they don't collapse into the drain.

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3. I didn't realise that I couldn't dig out the layer below the aquifer. I almost did, due to sheer exuberance at getting there. Um. Warn people. The result is flooding. Got it all fixed up now. Looks like that's why you said to make the drain a few levels lower than the aquifer.

Yup, aquifers drain in all directions except up.  I usually smooth the walls around the stairs of first layer of stone under the aquifer just as a reminder that I don't want to dig there.

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Right. Now I'm off to make a dining hall, bedrooms, and lots and lots of smithy areas. Plus I want to totally rearrange the single level my poor dorfs have been living and working on until now.

THANKYOU!!!

You are welcome  :D.  As I said before, I totally love aquifers.  Most of the time, I won't even consider an embark site unless it has one.  Once you have an aquifer tamed, it's so useful to have that it's worth the inconvenience of having to pierce it.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 09:47:57 am by Tacomagic »
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Thisfox

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Re: Aquifer Pierce Pump-Stack Method Tutorial
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2014, 05:51:31 pm »

SUCCESS!!!!!!

1. Hmm, never actually had this happen.  Usually the pressure from falling keeps everything at the lowest level.  Was your drainage shaft the same dimentions as your staircase?  Were you draining into the caves or off the side of the map?  How many levels down did you dig your drain pipe?  Not really sure what happened if it started to fill the shaft with water.  Usually only the level of the drain fills up to 7/7 and the rest of the shaft is almost empty.

The drainpipe was five levels downward, and drained to the north of the map, which was slightly closer than the other sides. It was four wide, as the staircase is four wide on an east-west and three thick on a north-south. I have been following your instructions, you see, or it would have been square instead of rectangular, I'm weird like that. I dug down under the hatch four levels, then the dwarf got tired and went to bed (No idea why staircases are so tiring, perhaps he'd had a big day) and it promptly filled the lowest section of the stair with 4/7 water. I got another dwarf to dig sideways from the third level down below the aquifer and then dig down to where I had set up the drain. He then, when he'd finished digging the drain with his narcoleptic friend, went back and fixed up the little sump problem I had with the sideways staircase, so it looked exactly the same as your pic, then I dug each level of staircase below the drain in a singular sheet, 5, 4, 3, 2, WATER. Other than a series of really annoying cancellations when I was smoothing the walls, it all went well, but I didn't know that it would at the time.

The old drain is now being layed out as my jewelers and decorating quarters until I can get a few things worked out down below.

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2. Taking down the waterwheel. There are plenty of tutorials explaining how to build a waterwheel. There are none explaining how to take it DOWN, more than a brief warning that it can fall. So I tried to stop it spinning first. That... that didn't work out too well, but no one was actually injured, as my hospital is still empty. So yeah. I think next time I'll try deconstructing it whilst it is spinning. Oops. :-[

You're on the right track there, deconstructing it while spinning is indeed the best way to do it so that they don't collapse into the drain.

Whups. Well, I thought it was the opposite. Damn.
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3. I didn't realise that I couldn't dig out the layer below the aquifer. I almost did, due to sheer exuberance at getting there. Um. The result is flooding. Got it all fixed up now. Looks like that's why you said to make the drain a few levels lower than the aquifer.
Yup, aquifers drain in all directions except up.  I usually smooth the walls around the stairs of first layer of stone under the aquifer just as a reminder that I don't want to dig there.

...I'm going to do that now too.
For various reasons I ended up with a whole pile of clay bricks when I was still messing around trying to work out how to get all the way through the aquifer (I also made a more robust military) so I've paved the walls of the shaft with earthenware. It looks really good.

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THANKYOU!!!

You are welcome  :D.  As I said before, I totally love aquifers.  Most of the time, I won't even consider an embark site unless it has one.  Once you have an aquifer tamed, it's so useful to have that it's worth the inconvenience of having to pierce it.

I agree it will be so useful! I did really want an aquifer tamed, as I wanted a constant fountain-and-waterfall-waterpark system in my "dwarf entertainment area", and I keep choosing places to live which are frozen for part of the year. So far I'd only been able to BOOM the hell out of the aquifers, which was a clumsy process at best, and I've pounded rather a lot of dwarfs deep into the earth with it so far.

Now to find out if my well cistern idea will work! Also, I need to work with some overpressure systems for bubbly fountains... Which is my backup idea for the well cistern... Heh.
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Tacomagic

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Re: Aquifer Pierce Pump-Stack Method Tutorial
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2014, 06:09:00 pm »


The drainpipe was five levels downward, and drained to the north of the map, which was slightly closer than the other sides. It was four wide, as the staircase is four wide on an east-west and three thick on a north-south. I have been following your instructions, you see, or it would have been square instead of rectangular, I'm weird like that. I dug down under the hatch four levels, then the dwarf got tired and went to bed (No idea why staircases are so tiring, perhaps he'd had a big day) and it promptly filled the lowest section of the stair with 4/7 water. I got another dwarf to dig sideways from the third level down below the aquifer and then dig down to where I had set up the drain. He then, when he'd finished digging the drain with his narcoleptic friend, went back and fixed up the little sump problem I had with the sideways staircase, so it looked exactly the same as your pic, then I dug each level of staircase below the drain in a singular sheet, 5, 4, 3, 2, WATER. Other than a series of really annoying cancellations when I was smoothing the walls, it all went well, but I didn't know that it would at the time.

That is really strange, I've never actually seen any cancellations on the final level after it's draining off the map, even if I have to make the drain like 100+ tiles away.

Would you mind plopping up a picture of your last layer so I can take a peek?  Maybe I'll see something odd, otherwise it's a mystery, and I hate mysteries.

Oh well, at least it did end up working out.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 07:23:59 pm by Tacomagic »
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Thisfox

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Re: Aquifer Pierce Pump-Stack Method Tutorial
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2014, 06:44:24 pm »

I took a few screenshots during the process but should have taken more:

This is a dorf putting in the hatch cover.


And this is the walling in process of aquifer #2 level. I haven't got any of the drain when it was draining (Whoops) but I'll go take a snapshot of it as it is now soon as I fire up the game. That said, it's been modified since then due to me being a meddler, so it won't be perfect. Can't fire it up yet, an hour or so and I'll have access.

Anything you can see that I did wrong from this? {grin}

Random note: I have made the delightful discovery that I can mine my glass sand straight off the staircase, which is goddamn useful, as that's my only sandy layer so far.
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Thisfox likes aquifers, olivine, Forgotten Beasts for their imagination, & dorfs for their stupidity. She prefers to consume gin & tonic. She absolutely detests Facebook.
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Tacomagic

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Re: Aquifer Pierce Pump-Stack Method Tutorial
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2014, 06:53:37 pm »

Walling process looks right, though I do see that your hatch cover is still there, that might have been why you were getting some of the cancellations.  If you don't take out the hatch cover before walling, the water will pool on top of the hatch cover, allowing the water to build up on the adjacent mined-out areas, it'll also push dwarves around on the adjacent staircase tiles.  Because of the way the water flows, this could potentially cause cancellations on all 3 of the east wall tiles, and the three northern wall sections on the eastern side.

If all your cancels were in that upper-right hand area, then it was the hatch cover.  If you had problems all over the level, then... I got nothin'.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 06:55:20 pm by Tacomagic »
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Thisfox

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Re: Aquifer Pierce Pump-Stack Method Tutorial
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2014, 07:05:48 pm »

The ones I had difficulty walling are the walls which aren't yet walled. I had just got one of them done and went {sense of achievement} then {better take a screenshot}...

I had real trouble with the one at top left... so northwest corner. The eastern side was easy as pie, but it did have a whole pumpstack hanging over it goin' chugchug. The southern side was easy as well, despite the fact that the drain runs north, and the pumpstack is northerly also.
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Thisfox likes aquifers, olivine, Forgotten Beasts for their imagination, & dorfs for their stupidity. She prefers to consume gin & tonic. She absolutely detests Facebook.
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Tacomagic

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Re: Aquifer Pierce Pump-Stack Method Tutorial
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2014, 07:20:42 pm »

The ones I had difficulty walling are the walls which aren't yet walled. I had just got one of them done and went {sense of achievement} then {better take a screenshot}...

I had real trouble with the one at top left... so northwest corner. The eastern side was easy as pie, but it did have a whole pumpstack hanging over it goin' chugchug. The southern side was easy as well, despite the fact that the drain runs north, and the pumpstack is northerly also.

Very strange.  Everything other than the hatch cover looks right (granted, can't see your shaft, but I'll trust you that it was 4x3 all the way down to the drain).

Not really sure why it kicked up a fuss for you.  Unless...

At any point did you deconstruct and reconstruct either or both of the two drain pumps on the very top?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 07:26:00 pm by Tacomagic »
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Thisfox

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Re: Aquifer Pierce Pump-Stack Method Tutorial
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2014, 05:26:04 am »



....This looks disturbingly phallic. Sorry.  :-[

Anyhow, yeah. Drain. Somewhat modified for housing.

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Thisfox likes aquifers, olivine, Forgotten Beasts for their imagination, & dorfs for their stupidity. She prefers to consume gin & tonic. She absolutely detests Facebook.
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Tacomagic

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Re: Aquifer Pierce Pump-Stack Method Tutorial
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2014, 08:05:20 am »

Yeah, not seeing anything that could have caused the issues with the cancellations.  The only thing I can think of is if one of the pumps somehow got out of order (usually happens if you deconstruct/reconstruct one of them, but I suppose it could have gotten bugged).

It's a mystery.  I hate mysteries  :-\.
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Thisfox

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Re: Aquifer Pierce Pump-Stack Method Tutorial
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2014, 06:11:00 pm »

I definitely didn't de/reconstruct any. A mystery then.I'll do this again with my next fort, so perhaps I can report back after that. Right now, I'm really enjoying this fort. I just need to train more masons...
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Thisfox likes aquifers, olivine, Forgotten Beasts for their imagination, & dorfs for their stupidity. She prefers to consume gin & tonic. She absolutely detests Facebook.
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Tacomagic

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Re: Aquifer Pierce Pump-Stack Method Tutorial
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2014, 06:16:27 pm »

I definitely didn't de/reconstruct any. A mystery then.I'll do this again with my next fort, so perhaps I can report back after that. Right now, I'm really enjoying this fort. I just need to train more masons...

If you have the same issue next time, try disabling the pump to see if that helps.  Water falling down from above is the only thing I can think of.
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Tacomagic

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Re: Aquifer Pierce Pump-Stack Method Tutorial
« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2014, 03:37:50 pm »

Added another appendix with a more efficient setup that requires fewer construction materials and costs less power.

You can actually do it even a little better than what I did there, but I'll need to go back and redo the pictures.

EDIT: Done!  Changing the way the drain is dug out makes construction a lot more straight forward.

« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 04:28:04 pm by Tacomagic »
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Thisfox

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Re: Aquifer Pierce Pump-Stack Method Tutorial
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2014, 02:38:30 am »

Um... so it didn't get that high in my complex, but after a lot of Fun and a lot of !!FUN!! with a !!Forgotten!!Beast!! (my first underground fire disaster to date) I have to wonder: Would it be better to pave the walls of my aquifer pierce with clay instead of wood? Or is it not an issue? Just... for next time. Do wooden walls on aquifer levels burn?
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Thisfox likes aquifers, olivine, Forgotten Beasts for their imagination, & dorfs for their stupidity. She prefers to consume gin & tonic. She absolutely detests Facebook.
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Oh god... Plump Helmet Man Mimes!

Tacomagic

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Re: Aquifer Pierce Pump-Stack Method Tutorial
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2014, 08:22:17 am »

Um... so it didn't get that high in my complex, but after a lot of Fun and a lot of !!FUN!! with a !!Forgotten!!Beast!! (my first underground fire disaster to date) I have to wonder: Would it be better to pave the walls of my aquifer pierce with clay instead of wood? Or is it not an issue? Just... for next time. Do wooden walls on aquifer levels burn?

Currently all constructed walls (no matter the material) are indestructible.  Wood vs. Clay is really an aesthetic thing.  If you like the way clay looks more than wood, then go for it  :).
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