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[Prudent Viper]

You should and you can. Quick attacks are very powerful, because they allow you to time your strikes so that you attack after they attack. If you have a good enough shield skill, you can effectively become invincible one on one.

I learned the multi/attack dodge thing when a group of 9 goblins tried to rob me. I refused, and we entered a non-lethal fight. They had two legendary fighters among them, so the best course of action there was to not escalate the situation, even though I had shoddy unarmed skills.

 Still, volume makes up for quality. Punching and kicking an enemy and then dodging away in a single action was extremely fun.

[Insanegame27]

so the (z)multi actions all take place at once do they? I've been attacking and blocking and that's worked pretty well 3v1 their way, even if they are undead, combined with fast attacks and running away, I can confidently deal with a 2v1 undead fight. my buddies are a different matter.

[TheDorf]

It would be neat if the towers had window-like openings on the highest floor, allowing skilled climbers to climb their way in. Now, I'm not sure if the towers are made out of blocks, but if they aren't, they should be. It would be awesome to have a few options of how to go about getting your hands on secrets.

Personally, I haven't managed to become a necromancer in the 0.40.xx versions. Starting out as a peasant doesn't really help either. :p

[Findulidas]

I managed to kill off all 200 zombies in a tower and then dodge past the 15 rest to the slab and read it.

Leading them outside in groups and then running around them so that I was only facing one at a time.

I also found that using a silver whip on the head was by far the most effective way of killing the zombies. Focus solely on the head and whip away. The other parts dont seem to actually matter as much when it comes to the zombies but two to three solid whips to the head was sure to kill them.

[Findulidas]

Have to point out that using a scourge is very much less effective since it cuts the head off instead of it just doing blunt damage which is what you are after.

[Sowelu]

Simon Belmont approves.

[Robsoie]

The multi attack tactic has been working very well.

There were 3 skeletons, they killed 2 of my companions in a couple of turns, my last guy ran away, and using :
aim -> head -> enable multiattack -> bash
aim -> head -> strike with shield
aim -> dodge -> away from undead
wait until undead is near then do it again (good idea to use record then use macros here)
took time (as head is very often difficult to hit) but the 3 undead are dead again and didn't hit me once.

I broke their leg before starting to aim the head previously to avoid too fast undeads.
Probably not the best tactic as there's a lot of miss due to head being the target, but at least it worked.

[Findulidas]

The multi attack tactic has been working very well.

There were 3 skeletons, they killed 2 of my companions in a couple of turns, my last guy ran away, and using :
aim -> head -> enable multiattack -> bash
aim -> head -> strike with shield
aim -> dodge -> away from undead
wait until undead is near then do it again (good idea to use record then use macros here)
took time (as head is very often difficult to hit) but the 3 undead are dead again and didn't hit me once.

I broke their leg before starting to aim the head previously to avoid too fast undeads.
Probably not the best tactic as there's a lot of miss due to head being the target, but at least it worked.

I found that a bit risky, but if you want to kill one zombie quickly and then run away from the rest of the crowd it seemed to work fine. With a whip and high skill on it I still recommend hitting once maybe even quick hits and then get away because the zombies are strong and quick. If they land a hit on you its over.

[Nikow]

The multi attack tactic has been working very well.

There were 3 skeletons, they killed 2 of my companions in a couple of turns, my last guy ran away, and using :
aim -> head -> enable multiattack -> bash
aim -> head -> strike with shield
aim -> dodge -> away from undead
wait until undead is near then do it again (good idea to use record then use macros here)
took time (as head is very often difficult to hit) but the 3 undead are dead again and didn't hit me once.

I broke their leg before starting to aim the head previously to avoid too fast undeads.
Probably not the best tactic as there's a lot of miss due to head being the target, but at least it worked.

Did you tried do the same, but with lower or upper body? It looks like 3 hits must be placed using backing move, but it looks really good agains animated corpses... for me.

[Robsoie]

I'll experiment more (didn't tried to focus on upper/lower body), i read that multi attack makes it more difficult to hit.
So i tried vs a night creature.
At first i did exactly what i posted. I nearly only missed or was parried by the creature knife. While the monster didn't hit me once, looks like dodge is good enough to avoid those very hard hitting attacks.

Then i tried without adding the shield strike, only the multiattack bash + the dodge, and then i started to hit more often until i struck the creature down.

So it seems (unless of course you're at legendary) that it's a better idea to do :
aim -> body part you want -> enable multiattack -> bash
aim -> dodge -> away from enemy
wait until enemy move next to you and repeat.

Additionally, out of having less penalty to hit, making 1 less multiattack should make you less tired as it's 1 less combat action by round.

I'll try this in my next undead/night creature encounter to see if it's really more efficient, and will give a test to upper/lower body

[pisskop]

I was wondering if we couldnt make them easier by giving all the civ races an interaction to mod out the 'hardness'  Something like taking out a tag or two and putting in 'opposed to life'?


---

Also I bet the new combat overhaul will fix some of this.  Skills like 'coordinating' and like will likely not be high in zoms.

[lowbart]

this post makes me wonder if I should change up my playstyle and learn to play DF as a platinum game.
quick attack combos with parries leading to dodge offsets. then again I wonder if it's possible to dodge your way through a mob of enemies, never move just wait for someone to get near you and dodge in the direction you want to go.

I tried that in a vault once. Hero-tier halberdsman with superhuman agility. There was way too many zombies and skeletons, I was trying to escape the room but I got pushed to the wrong end of the room and backed into a corner. You can imagine how that ended.

[Findulidas]

this post makes me wonder if I should change up my playstyle and learn to play DF as a platinum game.
quick attack combos with parries leading to dodge offsets. then again I wonder if it's possible to dodge your way through a mob of enemies, never move just wait for someone to get near you and dodge in the direction you want to go.

I tried that in a vault once. Hero-tier halberdsman with superhuman agility. There was way too many zombies and skeletons, I was trying to escape the room but I got pushed to the wrong end of the room and backed into a corner. You can imagine how that ended.

Yeah, facing a lot of quick enemies you want to be outside. Def recommend that when facing zombies in towers. Dont be inside its too dangerous.

[Robsoie]

Managed so far to destroy 50 undeads from a tower (legendary hammer + legendary fighter + high shield and dodge skill) using a iron hammer with the
- aim attack
- aim head
- enable multiattack -> bash
- aim attack
- dodge -> away
- press ,

repeat, without being hit more than once or twice (got fortunately deflected), only problem is that it takes a -very- lot of time.

But i experimented a bit with something else during that fight

- instead of directly aiming an attack when the undead reach melee range, i wait until there's the red triangle, meaning he's attacking.
- aim attack
- aim head
- enable multiattack -> bash
- aim attack
- block -> block attack
- press ,

then redo it.
It seems from doing that, the undead die faster, maybe it's just luck, but maybe there's some other factor in play, maybe it has to do that if the undead is attacking, it will not jump away from time to time, allowing you to hit more often ?
Only problem is that if you keep blocking, you don't move away, so you can get stunned by a charge (fortunately dodge away until stun is recovered)

Anyone experimented to see what can allow you to destroy an undead faster mostly without being hit ?

[Nikow]

When undead is atacking, you can see if he is charging or not on novice observing skill. I am using similar to your tactic, but i am allowing enemy to hit my shield, then slashing him and jump away (during recovery target is easier to hit). But i am not losing time to play with bash weapon, when there is no person who is able to ressurect deads again or it's bad biome. I am just slashing away they limbs using sword. 3 limbs are usualy enough.

Other tactic what i am using is blocking in one action, and then just atacking with multiple weapons. Stabing one sword into head and other slashing into neck or just courple slashed into lower body is pretty good too. But i was dealing with regular zombies from retired fort, who was taken by necromancer.

And yeah, i killed 12 undeads before undead, superfast elf bite him into throat. I managed to put him down, but... then i bleeded to death.