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[Arx]

Rolan, how much do you actually know about Christian teachings? Genuine interest, not trying to be offensive; rather trying not to be offensive.

Your first point is wrong: 'And do not be hasty to judge others, for as you judge, so shall you be judged; and with the measure you use, it shall be measured to you'; 'Let him who is without sin cast the first stone', i.e. Unless you are perfect, don't judge others.

Your second point is kinda' dubious, although it has a lot of merit.

The Bible doesn't require that you teach your children Christianity any more than that you teach anyone else. My parents would probably be confused but fine if I suddenly de-Christianised.

Encourage conversion: yup, but without being a dick about it. See BP's pseudo-Aztecs.

The miracles one is a fair point, but : 'if they will not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not listen to someone returned from the dead'.

And fighting for God is totally irrelevant to Christianity, as you noted in your post.

The strip is rude because it conveys misinformation and gives a false impression of Christianity, in my opinion.

[penguinofhonor]

This came up before and you cited blood moons (an astrological event that happens on a completely regular and predictable cycle) as evidence

Then I said that it was not the event itself but the days that it landed on.
They (presumably) land on Jewish holidays IIRC

And then someone pointed out that the same amount of blood moons have landed on the same Jewish holidays 2-4 times since Jesus was around. I forget the specific number.

[Rolan7]

Rolan, how much do you actually know about Christian teachings? Genuine interest, not trying to be offensive; rather trying not to be offensive.

No offense taken!  I often misremember things, so I rely on other people's research via a certain annotated online Bible.

Your first point is wrong: 'And do not be hasty to judge others, for as you judge, so shall you be judged; and with the measure you use, it shall be measured to you'; 'Let him who is without sin cast the first stone', i.e. Unless you are perfect, don't judge others.

2 John:

10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Your second point is kinda' dubious, although it has a lot of merit.

The Bible doesn't require that you teach your children Christianity any more than that you teach anyone else. My parents would probably be confused but fine if I suddenly de-Christianised.

Do they not believe in everlasting torment for nonbelievers after death?  My Christian family members were understandably worried about me.

Encourage conversion: yup, but without being a dick about it. See BP's pseudo-Aztecs.

I was hoping you could expand on this, particularly.  What *would* you say to show a group of blood-sacrificing cannibals that it's wrong to do so?

The miracles one is a fair point, but : 'if they will not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not listen to someone returned from the dead'.

I'd certainly listen to Moses if he was here, performing miracles as he did!  Unless God decided I should harden my heart and stay damned.  I'd also listen to someone who miraculously but verifiably returned from death.

Science involves considering new theories and accepting them if they're reproducibly correct.  It's not like scientists would ignore a man who can turn his staff into a snake.  They would be desperate to understand how it happens, even if the answer is channeled power from a superior being.

And fighting for God is totally irrelevant to Christianity, as you noted in your post.

The strip is rude because it conveys misinformation and gives a false impression of Christianity, in my opinion.

Matthew:

10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Jesus, also in Matthew:

11:20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
11:22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.   
11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Jesus preached love, and also conflict and spite.  "Thanks for hiding the truth from the wise and prudent".

[Il Palazzo]

I get the feeling the bible would be better off without Matthew in general.

[Sheb]

I get the feeling the bible would be better off without Matthew the Bible in general.

FTFY

[Arx]

Which annotated Bible do you use?

judging

Since both Jude ('Show mercy to those who doubt') and Jesus disagree, I'm strongly inclined to chalk 2 John 2 up to human fallibility. The direct teachings of Jesus are obviously pretty important to Christianity.

conversion

Sure they would, but it's not like they can force me to believe. They'd only make me miserable.

conversion 2

I'd probably go with living as I always do, which is pretty closely in line with the Bible and involves no human sacrifice, in order to demonstrate that I can be happy, healthy, and completely un-struck-down despite not making daily blood offerings. I am not a great people person though, which means that that wouldn't really be part of my expected task in the church.

miracles

I have heard stories from close friends about miraculous healings, including one that completely nonplussed the doctors, if that helps. I tend to be conflicted about those stories though, because on the one hand I've never known these friends to lie, but on the other I've never read any reliable news reports on this kind of thing. Maybe people wave it off as sensationalist trash if they want to report it? No real idea.

Re: reproducibility, it seems to me that if there was anyone with as much power in the Spirit as Moses kicking around, they would be blowing scientists' minds left and right, but no-one has had that kind of faith in reliably recorded history.

fighting

Jesus is directly quoting Micah, a prophet who spoke about the end times. This is presumably because his arrival was the first step in the coming of the end, although by no means the last.

The upbraiding of the cities is in reference to the majority of the people inside not believing Jesus, at which he was understandably pissed. This kind of relates to the earlier quote about Moses; people can be really dumb. Oobviously, if someone has heard about Jesus and chosen to ignore him then they are going to be uncomfortable on judgment day.

Also, I agree that a religion with no teachings would be easy to follow. It would also essentially be meaningless.

[burningpet]

Ecclesiastes and parts of proverbs are alright.

[ggamer]

I get the feeling the bible would be better off without Matthew the Bible in general.

FTFY

oooooh, 3edgy5me

He made a crack at christianity guys look how cool he is

[Frumple]

It's... not entirely an inaccurate statement, though. If folks just kinda' tossed out everything that wasn't Streaker J, and junked stuff like the sword bit in the process, the bible probably would be better off. Much more clear message. Probably a fair bit more palatable, too.

Actually kinda' forgetting, but didn't Jefferson or someone in that group do a remix of the bible that kicked out basically everything metaphysical, or something along those lines? Anyone here read the thing?

[penguinofhonor]

I have heard stories from close friends about miraculous healings, including one that completely nonplussed the doctors, if that helps. I tend to be conflicted about those stories though, because on the one hand I've never known these friends to lie, but on the other I've never read any reliable news reports on this kind of thing. Maybe people wave it off as sensationalist trash if they want to report it? No real idea.

I chalk most of these up to people trusting doctors too much. I feel like, at least in America, we've developed a view of doctors where they aren't allowed to be wrong. So if they are wrong but it's a good thing, it's a miracle (and it's a malpractice lawsuit if it's bad).

[Sheb]

Jefferson did a version of the New Testament with all the miracles and other supernatural things out, yeah. I bought it when I was in the States, but lost it before finishing it. It's, well, the New Testament, without the miracles.

Frumple, I think what you'd like would be the so-called Red-Letter Christian (Sadly totally unrelated to the Scarlet Letter).

[Frumple]

Yeah, something along those lines. It'd be nice if more folks within the religion aimed for that sort of thing (if not necessarily exactly what the movement in question is doing -- I'm not aware enough of 'em to say whether whatever their particular screwups are are attractive or not.).

I've pretty much always been comfortable around and working with christians that are... well, actually christ like, instead of particularly biblical focused. Good works, love for all humankind, etc., etc. They're usually good people. Sodding ridiculously small minority* of professed believers I've encountered, but good people.

*To be fair, it's a ridiculously small minority regardless of metaphysical beliefs, but there's a bit more hypocrisy built into being otherwise and claiming to be christian.

[Helgoland]

I get the feeling the bible would be better off without Matthew the Bible in general.

FTFY

oooooh, 3edgy5me

He made a crack at christianity guys look how cool he is

Pretty much this - that was a cheap one, Sheb.

( )

I really like some parts of the Pentateuch: The first creation myth, carries a great message about our place in the world - top of the food chain, but with a reminder not to fuck over what we have. The laws put down by Moses as well (I actually read part of them just a few days ago) - there are some shockingly modern concepts in there. In good as in bad, by the way: There's a pretty explicit mention in there of God commmitting a slow ethnocide.
And, of course, the first few sentences of John. Burn whatever books you want, but leave me those few words.

[Arx]

Interesting thought on the creation part: is God telling Adam and Eve they would die if they ate from the ToKoGaE (best acronym) an example of a justifiable lie? You can't tell someone with no concept of right and wrong that doing something would be wrong, after all.

Edit: and another one, could eating the fruit be symbolic of the choice to have full free will and thus the ability to commit evil? The Garden, and Earth, are presented as utopian with no evil before the Fall, but when man became aware of evil they became capable of comitting evil.

That made more sense in my head.

[Frumple]

Um... was it? Didn't the snake get in before the fall, thus meaning there was definitely evil in the garden before omnom?

Well. Unless the serpent wasn't actually evil. Which raises other questions.