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No

Only Judeism

Only Islam

Yes to both Judeism and Islam

[Arx]

Sure it does. The concept of sin is meaningless outside religion.

Okay, rephrased: being a non-Christian does not prevent you from taking actions viewed negatively by society and Christians.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

as for the ¨we have to lie in some cases¨ I strongly disagree with that.
There is never a good reason to lie

It is never right to do wrong to try to do right

There is no exception to sinning, it is wrong


also which is easier for a child to teach themselves, how to lie or tell to the truth?
I would say lie because through my own observations and experiences (myself, younger relatives, young church kids, etc) we will usually lie to attempt to get out of trouble and also from my own experience this kind of lieing just digs a deeper hole

Huh, what a coincidence that adam and eve lied in attempt to keep from the wrath of god just as a child will lie to keep from their parents punishment

[Helgoland]

as for the ¨we have to lie in some cases¨ I strongly disagree with that.
There is never a good reason to lie

It is never right to do wrong to try to do right

There is no exception to sinning, it is wrong

Okay, canonical example: The year is 1942, you're Polish, and a Gestapo officer comes to your house, inquiring if you've seen your neihbor recently. You have - he's right below you, under the floor boards, and currently soiling himself from fear. How do you respond?

[Frumple]

as for the ¨we have to lie in some cases¨ I strongly disagree with that.
There is never a good reason to lie

Many, many cases in history disagree with that. Pretty much any case where we've had ethnic cleansing going on and people protecting them, have been incredibly good reasons to lie, and that's... just the start of a very long list. Deception and dishonesty are fundamental parts of human interaction, and often for the better. As I've noted elsewhere, most of us wear clothes, and affect behaviors intended to deceive -- to present a message to others that reflects a picture of ourselves that is not a true one. We smile when we are sad, we walk with confidence when insecure, we give pleasantries to others even when the doing so is falsity. All... very normal, and often done with the intent of bettering those around us -- making their day brighter, even when, strictly speaking, your "Good day" or whathaveyou is a lie. We hide many truths of ourselves, and deceive, misdirect, and so on.

The lies we tell children in schools -- about math, about history, about science -- are manifold, and often done for genuinely good reason; some things really can't be understood by most at points in their development, and simplification is an appropriate path in that case. Tell a small lie, now, so that the larger truth is able to be learned, later. Even in churches, from what I've seen of sunday schools and whatnot, the practice is quite strong.

It's hard for me to see any conclusion otherwise. We have many reasons to lie. Many of them good. Almost every aspect of human civilization has screamed that from the rooftops in the same moment they condemn dishonesty on the streets. In the face of starvation, pain, death, and all sorts of other horrors this hostile existence forces upon us, the lies that bind together societies are not sins, but virtues.

... which isn't to say that all lying is good, of course. But the control of truth, including its fabrication, is a tool. It is not, itself, something with necessary moral character. There are good lies, and bad lies, just as there are truths spoken with good intention and truths spoken foul.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

as for the ¨we have to lie in some cases¨ I strongly disagree with that.
There is never a good reason to lie

It is never right to do wrong to try to do right

There is no exception to sinning, it is wrong

Okay, canonical example: The year is 1942, you're Polish, and a Gestapo officer comes to your house, inquiring if you've seen your neihbor recently. You have - he's right below you, under the floor boards, and currently soiling himself from fear. How do you respond?

Yes I have seen my neighbor


there is never a reason to lie in any cases

plus why the movie reference?




And I guess this is a matter of opinion but I honestly see no reason to lie, even in these cases it only brings more crap onto yourself and if you get caught it makes it so much worse

I will say, I am human and I do lie. I have done it before and I doubt there is a person on this earth that hasn't lied. I do not accept it as a good behavior, we shouldn't descept each other, honesty is such a better thing in my eyes I guess soooooo ya.

[cerapa]

Movie reference?

The nazis were real dude.

wat.

[Frumple]

Okay, canonical example: The year is 1942, you're Polish, and a Gestapo officer comes to your house, inquiring if you've seen your neihbor recently. You have - he's right below you, under the floor boards, and currently soiling himself from fear. How do you respond?

Yes I have seen my neighbor


there is never a reason to lie in any cases

Well... congratulations. You've just gotten your neighbor killed and/or tortured. Quite possibly yourself, as well.

Very kantian, though. Critter advocated a similar position, yeah. Even if the murderer asks if their victim is within, so that they may kill them, you are to tell the murderer truthfully that they are, if they are.

Would you advocate as much stringency on obeying and not stealing? Obey even if the command is sinful action, do not steal even if it means starvation?

... that's actually an interesting general question, now that I think about it. Would it be considered suicide to avoid sinful action if sinful action was the only means you have for survival? Is it killing yourself to starve instead of steal? If the choice is between false witness or death, which is acceptable? Wasn't there one of the major-ish biblical figures that chose lying over torture or somethin'?

[Helgoland]

Okay, canonical example: The year is 1942, you're Polish, and a Gestapo officer comes to your house, inquiring if you've seen your neihbor recently. You have - he's right below you, under the floor boards, and currently soiling himself from fear. How do you respond?

Yes I have seen my neighbor


there is never a reason to lie in any cases

Well... congratulations. You've just gotten your neighbor killed and/or tortured. Quite possibly yourself, as well.

Definitely himself as well - the helpers were usually sent to the KZ as well.
Also, movie reference? Maybe you're thinking of Inglorious Basterds, but I did not mean to reference that; it was more about making clear the implications of a collaborative answer.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Okay, canonical example: The year is 1942, you're Polish, and a Gestapo officer comes to your house, inquiring if you've seen your neihbor recently. You have - he's right below you, under the floor boards, and currently soiling himself from fear. How do you respond?

Yes I have seen my neighbor


there is never a reason to lie in any cases

Well... congratulations. You've just gotten your neighbor killed and/or tortured. Quite possibly yourself, as well.

Definitely himself as well - the helpers were usually sent to the KZ as well.
Also, movie reference? Maybe you're thinking of Inglorious Basterds, but I did not mean to reference that; it was more about making clear the implications of a collaborative answer.

(oh ok, woops)

Well I believe that I have my rules that I have to follow

I do believe it is wrong to lie in any case but I will be honest, I would lie in that situation. My other response was what a perfect response would be

i still think it would be wrong to lie but ya lets just say I hope to god i will never be in that situation

[StupidElves]

Well, this is my first post in this thread so I might as well make a small introduction to my religious self for those of you that already know me as well as give what demonination of Christianity and what they follow/operate under.

I am StupidElves, and I am a Methodist. Which are kinda really liberal Christians. From my experience, we do not condemn those of different faiths/those with no faith, we accept everyone and we don't pressure people to join.

Part of what makes up the Methodist doctrine is the belief in the Holy Trinity, and that is that there are three aspects to God. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. The Son is obvious, Jesus. The Father is the loving aspect of God as seen in the New Testament, and the Holy Spirit is what's in the Old Testament. The idea of the Holy Trinity is that God is these three separate entities, and one being all at the same time.

[Arx]

Also
1. All people can be saved
2. All people can know they are saved
3. All people can be saved to the utmost
4. I accidentally merged one and what was supposed to be two into one.
And the belief that all people can be perfect.

Because I'm also a Methodist and felt like explaining more doctrine.

[TD1]

Adam and Eve, had they not sinned, would not have created you, Cryxis. You would not exist. You would not even have been considered. So, the question is whether you believe humans can so drastically change God's mind-the infallible, all-knowing being-that he goes to the lengths of scrapping his happy-garden scene and turns it into eternal torment, or is it more likely that the infallible, all knowing God knew and had already based his plans around the actions of Adam and Eve. It is said that God limits the power of the devil. In which case, he didn't limit the power of Satan on his creation...in other words, he manipulated events to happen as they did. Nearly everything seems to point to sin being God's intended course in his creation. The creator ex nihilo, "Creator out of nothing,"
 must have also created sin.

As for the absolutism displayed by Cryxis, it seems it would let a lot of sin into the world. If Jesus were hiding a persecuted person, would he tell the killers he has them? Moral values are all very well and good, but when they end in you killing people to preserve your own morality, I tend to see it as a very negative morality.

Also
1. All people can be saved
2. All people can know they are saved
3. All people can be saved to the utmost

What about the person that has never had any way of knowing God?

[Graknorke]

I do believe it is wrong to lie in any case but I will be honest, I would lie in that situation.

So letting evil happen is okay, so long as you don't do anything wrong yourself?
This is like a less extreme repeat of the child killing problem again. It's avoiding sin on yourself while letting bad things happen to everyone else.

[Arx]

What about the person that has never had any way of knowing God?

God will repay each person according to what they have done.

The laws of Christianity are very much in line with what most people believe to be optimal for society. They are judged on how they followed their consciences, is what my minister just said.

[Graknorke]

Then again, right after that we have:

To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Which I believe goes directly against some things quoted before about the merit of works.