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Only Judeism

Only Islam

Yes to both Judeism and Islam

[Bohandas]

It wouldn't be so bad if he was presented as a trickster who plays mean jokes on people, but he's not; he's presented as almost the opposite of that.

[TheDarkStar]

It wouldn't be so bad if he was presented as a trickster who plays mean jokes on people, but he's not; he's presented as almost the opposite of that.

God did give Abraham a gigantic amount of stuff in return (like being the father of a nation).

[Graknorke]

This doesn't mean that the assassination was sanctioned by God (although there's another theological argument there that I won't go into) and Ehud would be held responsible for that. It did, however, give Israel a chance to drive out the Moabites.

So God didn't want it to happen, it just happened to to further one of his largest interests. Right.

God isn't going to command someone to do something he finds reprehensible, either.

Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, whom you love--Isaac--and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you."

God did send an angel to stop Abraham in the end, though. It was a test to see whether Abraham would value God over his own son.

It's about the command, not the outcome though. Reprehensible commands totally have a (well known) precedent.

[TheDarkStar]

This doesn't mean that the assassination was sanctioned by God (although there's another theological argument there that I won't go into) and Ehud would be held responsible for that. It did, however, give Israel a chance to drive out the Moabites.

So God didn't want it to happen, it just happened to to further one of his largest interests. Right.

God isn't going to command someone to do something he finds reprehensible, either.

Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, whom you love--Isaac--and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you."

God did send an angel to stop Abraham in the end, though. It was a test to see whether Abraham would value God over his own son.

It's about the command, not the outcome though. Reprehensible commands totally have a (well known) precedent.

I think the quotes are messed up? Anyway, it was probably in no way an easy choice for Abraham, but he decided to trust God (who, if I remember correctly, promised Abraham that he would have descendants earlier) that everything would work out.

[Arcvasti]

If I remember correctly, Judges was also the book where the Levite sent his concubine to get raped to death instead of him and then cut her body into 12 pieces and mailed them to the different tribes to get them to declare holy war on the people responsible.

...

Judges is fucked up. That's really all there is to say on the matter.

Granted, God didn't make him kill the son, just a sick test of faith...for Satan, I think?

I've heard a couple theories on the whole Abraham thing:

#1: Since then, no Abrahamic religion has ever practiced human sacrifice, when that was somewhat unusual. It might have been an odd way of making sure no one sacrificed humans to God.

#2[Of more very questionable authenticity]: It could have been the other way around. The Bible is definitely not historically accurate in a lot of ways. Abraham could have tried to sacrifice his son in a time of famine or something and then God jumped in and said "Nope".

#3: It could just sort have been a test of devotion, as normal. But think about it. God asks Abraham to sacrifice his only son for him to test his devotion. So then, God sacrificing HIS only son for Abraham's descendants is HIS show of devotion. He's not holding Abraham to anything He doesn't hold Himself to.

EDIT: OMAHGAHDTHENINJAZAREEVERYWHARE

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

I like door number three

[MetalSlimeHunt]

To give another example, a warrior by the name of Jephthah offers to sacrifice the first thing that came out of his house when he got home to God if God would deliver a battle for him. God agrees and delivers the battle, Jephthah returns home....and his daughter runs out to greet him. Unlike with Abraham and Issac, Jephthah does indeed burn his daughter as an offering to God. This is in Judges 11.

[Orange Wizard]

How many times to I need to cite Judges 21:25?

[Bohandas]

The story about Abraham almost sacrificing Isaac always reminds me of the scene in Scary Movie 4 where the alien has Cindy in a Saw-type situation and is trying to get her to gouge her eye out and when she complies he's surprised and yells over to one of his friends to "get in here! This one's actually gonna do it!"

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

To give another example, a warrior by the name of Jephthah offers to sacrifice the first thing that came out of his house when he got home to God if God would deliver a battle for him. God agrees and delivers the battle, Jephthah returns home....and his daughter runs out to greet him. Unlike with Abraham and Issac, Jephthah does indeed burn his daughter as an offering to God. This is in Judges 11.

But this wasn't god telling him to do it it was him telling god what he was going to do

[MetalSlimeHunt]

To give another example, a warrior by the name of Jephthah offers to sacrifice the first thing that came out of his house when he got home to God if God would deliver a battle for him. God agrees and delivers the battle, Jephthah returns home....and his daughter runs out to greet him. Unlike with Abraham and Issac, Jephthah does indeed burn his daughter as an offering to God. This is in Judges 11.

But this wasn't god telling him to do it it was him telling god what he was going to do

30 And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: “If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.”

32 Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the Lord gave them into his hands. 33 He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.

Clearly, God found this deal acceptable.

I mean, none of this should really be surprising. Human sacrifice was pretty common in older religions. Nobody else has really managed Aztec scale stuff, but there's plenty of smaller codifications of it.

[Frumple]

How many times to I need to cite Judges 21:25?

... that bit mostly just makes me wonder if it wasn't, y'know, added later at some point. I could definitely see the transcriber looking at all that and just kinda'... fudging things a titch.

[Orange Wizard]

Well, I could hardly blame him for doing so.

[Arcvasti]

To give another example, a warrior by the name of Jephthah offers to sacrifice the first thing that came out of his house when he got home to God if God would deliver a battle for him. God agrees and delivers the battle, Jephthah returns home....and his daughter runs out to greet him. Unlike with Abraham and Issac, Jephthah does indeed burn his daughter as an offering to God. This is in Judges 11.

But this wasn't god telling him to do it it was him telling god what he was going to do

30 And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: “If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.”

32 Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the Lord gave them into his hands. 33 He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.

Clearly, God found this deal acceptable.

I mean, none of this should really be surprising. Human sacrifice was pretty common in older religions. Nobody else has really managed Aztec scale stuff, but there's plenty of smaller codifications of it.

So, let me get this straight:

1: A warrior/general/whatever says[With no prompting on God's part], that he would sacrifice the first thing that comes of out his house if he wins the war.
2: He wins the war.
3: He then sacrifices his daughter[Acting surprised and sad about it. I mean, who the fuck did he EXPECT to come out of his house?].

Now, if it had been:

1: God says he will grant warrior/general/whatever victory if he sacrifices the first thing that comes out of his house.
2: He wins the way.
3: He then sacrifices his daughter.

It would have been much worse. Still pretty terrible.

How many times to I need to cite Judges 21:25?

^This too. Judges =/= good example. Not exactly sure why its even in there. Probably something along the lines of "God supposedly had a hand in this event/man/whatever, lets put it in.".

[MetalSlimeHunt]

God "delivering them into his hands" is the equivalent of agreeing to the deal.