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No

Only Judeism

Only Islam

Yes to both Judeism and Islam

[Orange Wizard]

Ya the holy grail is just a gold cup that jesus drank out of

not really all that amazing

It probably wasn't even gold. More likely wood or clay.

...

The Ark of the Covenant would be more significant (historically, mind you, not spiritually) but I'd be surprised if it actually survived.

[Gnorm]

I forwent Episcopal confirmation when the time came, though mostly because I left the church. I figured that it really wasn't necessary because:
1. It's really more of a show than an actual sacrament.
2. Scriptural basis of the sacrament is flimsy (from what I have read).
3. Whereas Baptism—a more important sacrament—is rebirth in Christ and forgiveness of sin, confirmation is merely church membership and a free BCP.
4. The last thing I wanted was full confirmation and membership in a church with which I wasn't in full agreement.

The Ark of the Covenant would be more significant (historically, mind you, not spiritually) but I'd be surprised if it actually survived.

If the Ark was to be found, I imagine that it wouldn't have the city-leveling power it is said to have had in the Scripture. I don't say this because I do not believe that it once did, mind you, but the covenant between the Jews and God has been fulfilled. The two Jewish Temples and the Ark were used as a physical embodiment of God on Earth, but once Jesus was killed, the presence of God spread throughout the Earth, to be with everyone always.

[Orange Wizard]

If the Ark was to be found, I imagine that it wouldn't have the city-leveling power it is said to have had in the Scripture. I don't say this because I do not believe that it once did, mind you, but the covenant between the Jews and God has been fulfilled. The two Jewish Temples and the Ark were used as a physical embodiment of God on Earth, but once Jesus was killed, the presence of God spread throughout the Earth, to be with everyone always.

I don't remember the Ark levelling any cities?

[smjjames]

If the Ark was to be found, I imagine that it wouldn't have the city-leveling power it is said to have had in the Scripture. I don't say this because I do not believe that it once did, mind you, but the covenant between the Jews and God has been fulfilled. The two Jewish Temples and the Ark were used as a physical embodiment of God on Earth, but once Jesus was killed, the presence of God spread throughout the Earth, to be with everyone always.

I don't remember the Ark levelling any cities?

It was supposed to be the potential or something.

Which makes it sound an awful lot like a nuke.

AFAIK, the myth goes that if you open it, terrible things happen, basically. Though nothing was said about accidentially dropping it and the lid popping off.

Also, the whole grail thing was just me trying to re-rail the thread somewhere.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Ya know technicaly
I still think god is protecting the Jewish
I mean look at Isreal, they got attacked by litteraly ALL of their neighboring countries and not only monkey stomped them but actualy took land in the process

[Lord Shonus]

That wasn't divine intervention. Israel knew the attack was coming, so they shot first. It's hard to conquer someone when you get smashed the day before you were going to attack, after all.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

That wasn't divine intervention. Israel knew the attack was coming, so they shot first. It's hard to conquer someone when you get smashed the day before you were going to attack, after all.

I didn't say it was divine intervention
I just said god is still keeping his word

Doesn't mean god sat there and guided their bullets
Could have just been giving them the ability to know or bravery in the soldiers going to fight

Either way I think Isreal is being protected in some way to be able to defend itself against all of it's neighbors

[Ghills]

Yeah.  It's all over the scriptures that in the last days Israel will be gathered in again and queens will be their nursing mothers (i.e. rulers will support them) etc.  Check Isaiah. 

Divine intervention doesn't have to be flashy. It can be as simple as guiding the right people to be in the right place at the right time.  That actually seems to be how God works, mostly. Prophets can do crazy things, but mostly what they do is teach and ask people to be better in their everyday lives. Jesus spent 30ish years on earth, and a lot of that was talking to people and asking them to be better.

[smjjames]

That wasn't divine intervention. Israel knew the attack was coming, so they shot first. It's hard to conquer someone when you get smashed the day before you were going to attack, after all.

I didn't say it was divine intervention
I just said god is still keeping his word

Doesn't mean god sat there and guided their bullets
Could have just been giving them the ability to know or bravery in the soldiers going to fight

Either way I think Isreal is being protected in some way to be able to defend itself against all of it's neighbors

It's called courage, or bravery, or perhaps faith, or even the will to survive.

And duh, of course they're being protected in some way, by funding (and probably training in the early years) from the west, the US particularily. Though a lot of it seems to just come from the fact that they've had to struggle and be the best they possibly can be in order to survive over there.

Also, a lot of it had to do with the surrounding countries not being truly allies to each other or something.

Yeah.  It's all over the scriptures that in the last days Israel will be gathered in again and queens will be their nursing mothers (i.e. rulers will support them) etc.  Check Isaiah. 

Divine intervention doesn't have to be flashy. It can be as simple as guiding the right people to be in the right place at the right time.  That actually seems to be how God works, mostly. Prophets can do crazy things, but mostly what they do is teach and ask people to be better in their everyday lives. Jesus spent 30ish years on earth, and a lot of that was talking to people and asking them to be better.

Meh, I'm aetheistic and don't think that last days thing is even real, also, it's probably as vague as any oracle you'd get from Dephi.

[Frumple]

Also, a lot of it had to do with the surrounding countries not being truly allies to each other or something.

That and Israel basically acting like incredible bastards quite a bit. Part jewish by blood, myself, and nothing against jews in general, but Israel is something I find myself liking less and less as time goes by and more atrocities are committed by its hand. Nasty ass geopolitical policy and action, aye.

Whole thing's a mess, but if that's the sort of way YWHW's protection manifests, I continue to want absolutely nothing to do with the critter. The jewish nation has not made a very good showing in regards to moral action over the last few decades. Not entirely their fault, I guess -- that was a freaking terrible place to settle down, considering the local situation, and even worse in the way it was handled, historically -- but...

... more on topic, pretty sure the bible quite specifically said there's pretty much no way to know when shit will actually go down. Trying to ascribe modern events to biblical prophecy and whatnot is... probably some variation of heresy. Or sin, I guess -- doubting the word of god, et al. Would probably posit that the best response to anything of that sort is to just pointedly ignore it and act as if it doesn't exist. S'been too many people that have attempted to excuse terrible action because of such considerations. Don't treat Israel's actions through the lens of YWHW's protection, basically -- consider them as you would consider the actions of any other child of god, and comport yourself accordingly.

E: Actually, it did kinda' strike me that they're probably right in line with Old Testament YWHW, all things considered. Was under the impression most Christians pointedly changed topics when discussion of that particular critter comes up, though. Renegotiated contract, not actually jewish heretics, actually loving god now instead of murderous inhuman monster, etc., etc.

[Sheb]

Also, it really seems weird to state that God is protecting Jews because of Israel, when we know what happened in the early 40's. If he's a protector, he ain't very good.

[Gnorm]

Let us also remember that the Jews lost their claim as the Chosen People of God upon giving Jesus up to be crucified and rejecting His Salvation.

[Frumple]

... does the text actually say that? Some tentative poking around points to the possibility that some of them -- the Pharisees, mostly -- might have, but nothing blanket, and no specific recension of their status as the chosen of YWHW.

Also a pretty high likelihood that the bits speaking against the jewish people were either post-event anti-jewish stuff (coming out of christian gentiles, decades after Streaker J was supposed to have keeled over -- transcription manipulation, basically) or a known jewish literary technique (more or less an old invocation of "no true scotsman" -- a sort of "look at these insufficiently faithful not-true-Jews" thing) that probably didn't mean terrible much, when it comes right down to it.

Also an odd sort of thing to state, considering Streaker J and his exposure-bros were mostly jews themselves...

[Ultimuh]

Let us also remember that the Jews lost their claim as the Chosen People of God upon giving Jesus up to be crucified and rejecting His Salvation.

Hrmm.. That got nothing to do with it at all. Many people (including Christians) seem to disregard the fact that his death was part of salvation itself.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Also, it really seems weird to state that God is protecting Jews because of Israel, when we know what happened in the early 40's. If he's a protector, he ain't very good.

Were they unified as one nation?
Were they gathered in one population in which to protect themselves?
Also if I remember right they had plenty of warning signs
Don't get me wrong that was absolutly horrible


Also I've got to agree with frumble that not all of them lost status, though the Gentiles did gain their own status as well. All non Jewish people that also were not pagan (by my understanding) were the second chosen people of god.