Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

No

Only Judeism

Only Islam

Yes to both Judeism and Islam

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Do you see any parallel between consent to being baptised and other ages of consent (sexual relationships etc.), Cryxis? If they're different, why?

As I said, changes from person to person
It's the age that they are able comprehend and understand what it is
I doubt a five year old can comprehend relationships
But I believe he could comprehend that heaven=good, salvation=access to heaven, believing that Jesus died for you=salvation, hell=bad, no salvation=hell, not believing in Jesus dieing for your sins= no salvation


Relationships are much more complex and don't having any simplified version as far as I know

[Frumple]

I sincerely doubt the vast, vast majority of five year olds can even approach understanding exactly what is entailed by things such as heaven or hell. The concept of eternity alone, and the conceptual importance behind a decision that entails gambling on literally infinite consequences is just not something someone that young can grasp. You're talking about a subject that is considerably more complicated than comparatively simple human relationships.

Your line of comprehension strips everything about salvation of basically all meaning, cryx. It's a tremendous disservice to the concepts involved, imo.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Isn't that the basics of how most people try to reach non believers



God sent his son to die on the cross for our sins and if you believe in him you will have eternal life

Tell me if I'm wrong but that's the exact line my church uses

Of course later in your belief you learn more than just the basics but that is the basics.

[penguinofhonor]

During Baptism, your guardian is asked permission. During Confirmation, YOU are asked permission. And you could technically say no[Although usually, if you don't want to be Confirmed, you don't go through with the thing anyways. I always wondered what would happen if the priest asked "Do you reject Satan and all his works?" and they said "Nope".].

Ah, if only it actually happened like this. In my experience, any Catholic kid who didn't want to get confirmed got forced into it by their parents because they were clearly just trying to be a rebellious teenager. Of course, everyone knew better than to say no at the ceremony. I'm assuming they'd get in trouble for embarrassing their parents in front of the bishop, then get forced into redoing it soon afterward.

I'm skeptical of any religious choices made before you're relatively independent. Very few of the kids who got confirmed seemed to actively want it - they just knew it was what they were supposed to do at that age and what all the adults in their life wanted them to do.

[Orange Wizard]

In our church it's "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." Pretty much the same meaning.

We also baptise infants. Not because it's necessary for salvation, but because it is more or less a mark of someone raised in a Christian household. We don't wait for the child to "understand what he's getting into", so to speak.

During Baptism, your guardian is asked permission. During Confirmation, YOU are asked permission. And you could technically say no[Although usually, if you don't want to be Confirmed, you don't go through with the thing anyways. I always wondered what would happen if the priest asked "Do you reject Satan and all his works?" and they said "Nope".].

Ah, if only it actually happened like this. In my experience, any Catholic kid who didn't want to get confirmed got forced into it by their parents because they were clearly just trying to be a rebellious teenager. Of course, everyone knew better than to say no at the ceremony. I'm assuming they'd get in trouble for embarrassing their parents in front of the bishop, then get forced into redoing it soon afterward.

I'm skeptical of any religious choices made before you're relatively independent. Very few of the kids who got confirmed seemed to actively want it - they just knew it was what they were supposed to do at that age and what all the adults in their life wanted them to do.

In the Reformed church, we have a Confession of Faith, which is (I suppose) fairly similar to being Confirmed. It is, however, solely up to the person involved. There is no age requirement (though it's usually expected that you will be at least in your late teens). The elders will interview you, and if they think you don't fully understand/parents forced you into it/are otherwise disingenuous, they won't permit the the confession.

[Arcvasti]

During Baptism, your guardian is asked permission. During Confirmation, YOU are asked permission. And you could technically say no[Although usually, if you don't want to be Confirmed, you don't go through with the thing anyways. I always wondered what would happen if the priest asked "Do you reject Satan and all his works?" and they said "Nope".].

Ah, if only it actually happened like this. In my experience, any Catholic kid who didn't want to get confirmed got forced into it by their parents because they were clearly just trying to be a rebellious teenager. Of course, everyone knew better than to say no at the ceremony. I'm assuming they'd get in trouble for embarrassing their parents in front of the bishop, then get forced into redoing it soon afterward.

I'm skeptical of any religious choices made before you're relatively independent. Very few of the kids who got confirmed seemed to actively want it - they just knew it was what they were supposed to do at that age and what all the adults in their life wanted them to do.

Yeah, you're probably right there. My own Confirmation was fairly recent and I wasn't really forced into it, but I recall there being much younger kids there who were more apathetic about religion. Sort of defeats the purpose. So, for best results, Confirmation would be moved up to around 18-20ish age rather then 11-15. The system works in theory, but not in practice.

* Arcvasti retracts some of his debate points and puts them in his marsupial pouch

[Criptfeind]

Man, I remember way back when I was going to be confirmed or whatever. I had no idea at all what it was about, but I was just told that it was extremely important and totally vital to my future that I did it. I ended up not doing it for some reasons, and it turned out to be completely unimportant. There is a lesson in that, but I'm not sure it was the right one for such a young kid...

[Descan]

That takin' a bath and mumbling a few lines while listenin' to an old guy isn't actually all that important?

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

I will lock this thread for another comment like that

[Arcvasti]

Cryxis, chill. Descan is an atheist. Getting angry at him for expressing that belief would be hypocritical. Locking the thread makes you seem defensive and angry. Which might be true, but you are [One of]the Bay12 spokesperson{s} for Christianity. Plus, he had a which means that its mostly in good spirit. If it had been along the lines of "Christianity is an insane death-cult started by bronze age lunatics", you still shouldn't lock the thread. Once it gets to attacking forumites or dismissing the entire Christian population, THEN you lock it. Saying that "I don't believe what you believe" or "I don't think this is plausible" is a far cry from "You are all wrong and I hate you".

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Sorry, i took what he said very insulting


I don't like insults and it's not the first one that has been thrown in this thread whether it be on purpose or not

[Graknorke]

Cryxis, cool it. Nobody was insulting anybody.

On the topic of confirmation, I went to a Catholic school as a non-catholic, and still without my mother insisting I would have probably have done it due to the manipulation ace card of peer pressure. The school basically posed it as the most normal and best most important thing that ever happened to a person, rather than being a religious ceremony held by a minority of the population and that really isn't all that significant an event.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Cryxis, cool it. Nobody was insulting anybody.

I was saying sorry

[Cheeetar]

If you want your apology to be taken sincerely, be as upfront about it as possible- don't use qualifying remarks (I'm saying sorry, BUT you were insulting me.)

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

I was saying sorry and explaining why i was flipping out

I flipped out because i felt insulted

but i was sorry for flipping out