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[smjjames]

Matthew 21 says that Jesus asked his disciples to bring him two donkeys and then says he somehow managed to ride both donkeys simultaneously into Jerusalem. He then cites a prophecy from Zechariah this apparently fulfilled. The other three gospels all describe a similar scene, but with one donkey. They don't mention any prophecies.

Luke and Mark mentioned the colt, and John mentioned the ass; Matthew mentioned both, along with the prophecy to justify it. Odd picture, but it seems to be what the Scripture describes. I'll try to look deeper into this prophecy and the Triumphant Entry later, along with the other issues brought up, but I am too tired right now.

Maybe he tied them together and stood/sat on their backs? That would definetly be attention getting.

[Uristides]

I was imagining an old world version of that Volvo van Damme ad.

[TD1]

What would you do if someone said they'd had a prophecy nowadays?

"I predict that God will come back, and he shall be riding two volvo cars at the same time!" type thing.

Well, you wouldn't believe it. But, apparently it's completely believable because it's in the bible.

And, if these prophecies are true, then why aren't humans having them anymore? Sure, you get the odd pretender, but no prophecy has ever been found to be completely true.

So why are the ones in the bible seen as truth?

[Lord Shonus]

There's been lots of modern "prophets", most of the prophecies from which were vague enough that they kind of came true, or else were quite accurate for a long time (a skeptic would claim that this is because they merely made a good reading of the trends of the time) and were thus very heavily followed in their time. Edgar Cayse and Jean Dixon are probably the most famous examples of this.


As for why people "buy into" Biblical prophecy despite the rarity of genuine prophecy in modern times, there's two very important things to keep in mind. First, even the Biblical prophecies were very rare, with one prophet a generation being quite extraordinary. It seems like a lot more because the Bible compresses a lot of years into a very short narrative, but they weren't that common. Second, most believers believe that the majority of the prophecies have already been fulfilled (some believe ALL of the prophecies, depending on how allegorical they think they are), giving them added veracity when evaluating the ones that haven't.

[Descan]

Of course, comin' from modern times, it seems a bit silly to believe a prophecy written in the bible is true because it coming true was also written in the bible...

I mean, sure, if you were there at the time, and there's all these prophecies you've heard of and hey presto there they go, being all fulfilled, sure that'd be a mighty fine coincidence and worthy of thought. But there's no saying that all those ~fallible humans~ didn't just go "Yeah, sure, that happened."

[Frumple]

Or assigned the wrong event as fulfilling the prophecy in question. It's incredibly rare that one can't be fulfilled by, like. Dozens upon dozens of different events. And that is assuming they can't be fulfilled by non-human animals (I'd bet a non-zero monetary amount (if I had it to spare) that the entirety of revelations has occurred to ants, at some point or another), different realities, things on other planets, incidental rock formations, straight up fiction... prophecy that's not incredibly specific is skeevy as hell at best.

Like, you need specific lat/long coordinates, specified calendar and time system, exact number of years from point of prediction, probably stellar coordinates and specification of actors, confirmation it is, indeed, occurring in this reality, etc., so forth, so on. Otherwise there's going to be more fulfillment conditions than you can shake a stick at.

[penguinofhonor]

Would you not assume that prophecies God gives to humans on Earth apply to humans on Earth? I mean, he's doing it for some reason. "Someone in the Andromeda galaxy is going to do X" or "An ant will do Y" are pretty pointless.

Maybe he tied them together and stood/sat on their backs? That would definetly be attention getting.

His disciples apparently threw their coats over the donkey(s), so a weird hammock thing could be possible. But this is an adult donkey and a colt, so any sort of platform he could make would be lopsided and comical looking.

[Orange Wizard]

I always assumed he rode one and had the other follow, but hammocks are cool too.

[penguinofhonor]

I don't think that fits with the descriptions. Matthew mentions the disciples throwing their cloaks on both donkeys for Jesus to sit on. That doesn't necessarily mean he sat on both, but Mark mentions him sitting on the colt.

That said, I don't buy that the three non-Matthew disciples are partially describing this event. If this lopsided litter thing is what happened, it is not honest to describe it as Jesus sitting on a single donkey and riding it into the city. That is not a half-truth or an incomplete description. It's outright incorrectly describing what happened.

[Cheeetar]

The public has a right to know about Mr. Jesus's riding habits.

[Frumple]

Would you not assume that prophecies God gives to humans on Earth apply to humans on Earth? I mean, he's doing it for some reason. "Someone in the Andromeda galaxy is going to do X" or "An ant will do Y" are pretty pointless.

It's YWHW. Who the hell knows what its reason is?

If a divinely given prophecy can fit an ant, who can say it is not about the ant? YWHW, and it isn't talking.

Mind you, the bigger issue is the prophecy in question fitting dozens of different people or situations along with however many untold billions of ants, but eh. Prophetic vagueness has always been its only strength, I guess. Barring weather reports, anyway.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Haven't been able to check this thread in a while

We aren't on a derail are we?

[Orange Wizard]

We're "discussing" Jesus' arrival in Yerushalayim.

[Descan]

Well, technically, we're discussing the relevance of prophecies, specifically A) prophecies in the bible fulfilled in the bible, and B) prophecies so vague that they could fit very many human events, even assuming that they're only about humans on earth within the last few thousand years (i.e. not about future human Alpha Centauri colonies in the next 3 millenia or whatever) and C) prophecies that don't even make sense, like Jesus going into a place riding two separate animals of differing size.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

*Cryxis resurects thread

You're not dieing on my watch!

Do we dare delve into flame war topics?