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Only Judeism

Only Islam

Yes to both Judeism and Islam

[Frumple]

Yeah, heh. Damn few people would. That is actually why most of us are probably going to hell, YWHW existing.

Incidentally, prosperity gospel is just the most hilarious thing ever if you have a sense of schadenfreude.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

I'm not saying I wouldn't try to help the dieing homeless man, I just wouldn't shell out several denarii for him to stay at a hotel and eat better than me, I would probs just take him to a public wash room get him a new set of cloths, buy him lunch and find the nearest homeless shelter for him

[TheDarkStar]

I'm not saying I wouldn't try to help the dieing homeless man, I just wouldn't shell out several denarii for him to stay at a hotel and eat better than me, I would probs just take him to a public wash room get him a new set of cloths, buy him lunch and find the nearest homeless shelter for him

Don't forget the hospital; they can probably help him much more than you can (but I guess this is similar to how the Samaritan left the man in an inn where they could care for him).

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Thanks almost forgot that, so instead of the shelter last I would bring him to a hospital, unless of course he was an inch from death. In which case I would gently put him in my car out my blinkers on and gun it to the hospital and call to tell them I have a person in major need of medical care then make sure he lives then go do all the other things to help

[penguinofhonor]

Like Jesus said: "Help other people, but not so much that you can't afford all your own possessions and comforts."

[Orange Wizard]

Yeah, heh. Damn few people would. That is actually why most of us are probably going to hell, YWHW existing.

I think this would be a good time to bring up another point:

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.

He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy.

How many good works you do has no effect on the Heaven/Hell thing. Ostensibly.

Like Jesus said: "Help other people, but not so much that you can't afford all your own possessions and comforts."

"Sell everything you own and give it to the poor, then come follow me."

[Arcvasti]

Out of curiousity, how is the whole "Saul goes to a medium and summons Samuel's spirit" thing explained? Because, from what I remember from religion class[Basically a joke] and sermons, in the Christian view, mediums and such are charlatans and have no actual magic powers, thus rendering them unable to summon spirits. Always sort of wondered at that, as its one of the weirdest self-contradictions in the Old Testament.

Like Jesus said: "Help other people, but not so much that you can't afford all your own possessions and comforts."

"Sell everything you own and give it to the poor, then come follow me."

I think that might have been sarcasm? Although sarcasm illustrating a somewhat sad truth that most people probably wouldn't do that.

[RedKing]

I'm not saying I wouldn't try to help the dieing homeless man, I just wouldn't shell out several denarii for him to stay at a hotel and eat better than me, I would probs just take him to a public wash room get him a new set of cloths, buy him lunch and find the nearest homeless shelter for him

Don't forget the hospital; they can probably help him much more than you can (but I guess this is similar to how the Samaritan left the man in an inn where they could care for him).

People forget the last bit of that story:

he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. He set him on his own animal, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, and gave them to the host, and said to him, 'Take care of him. Whatever you spend beyond that, I will repay you when I return.'

So, he didn't just get him to a hospital, he:
1. Cleaned the wounds with oil and wine (both valuable commodities).
2. Sat him on his animal (and thus walked the rest of the way).
3. Paid in advance for his care and basically said "Put whatever else you need on my tab."

The modern-day equivalent would be taking the homeless guy to the hospital, and then telling the hospital you'll cover his medical bills, no matter what kind of surgery he needs. And maybe wrecking your car in the process (or driving it so fast that the cops arrest you and impound your car).

The Good Samaritan didn't just help the traveller, he was his instant best dudebro. Which, of course, is a tough sell to most people. So it's been watered down to "Meh, call 911 and then feel good about yourself."

[Frumple]

Thanks almost forgot that, so instead of the shelter last I would bring him to a hospital, unless of course he was an inch from death. In which case I would gently put him in my car out my blinkers on and gun it to the hospital and call to tell them I have a person in major need of medical care then make sure he lives then go do all the other things to help

... yeah, unless you actually have emergency medical training, don't do that. Have a cell phone, call your local emergency service. Moving someone that's critically injured, especially if you don't know what you're doing, is a good way to kill them or badly exaggerate their injuries.

Wanting to help is good, but wanting to help also gets a fair number of people dead on a yearly basis.

---

And yeah, II, ostensibly. There's a lot of disagreement on that subject, iirc. I'd probably say that doing good works won't get you into heaven, but not doing them damn sure will get you into hell. Your works might not be able to save you, but it does seem like they're quite capable of damning you.

Unless there's something else in the text that conveniently contradicts that point like those ones shove a leek into the orifices of all the ethical lessons in the biblical texts, anyway.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

My mother was an EMT for several years
I know the jist of how to not over exaggerate peoples wounds, though if there are bones sticking out and blood everywhere I'm just calling 911 and waiting

[Orange Wizard]

And yeah, II, ostensibly. There's a lot of disagreement on that subject, iirc. I'd probably say that doing good works won't get you into heaven, but not doing them damn sure will get you into hell. Your works might not be able to save you, but it does seem like they're quite capable of damning you.

Unless there's something else in the text that conveniently contradicts that point like those ones shove a leek into the orifices of all the ethical lessons in the biblical texts, anyway.

Well, the subject is discussed in the book of James. The gist of it is that good works are an expression of saving faith, rather than a part of it.

When Jesus was crucified, there was another guy next to him, who admitted that Jesus was the son of God, and all that. Jesus forgave him then and there, saying "today you will dine with me in paradise", which is kind of hard to intentionally misconstrue. Basically, the guy had never done a good thing in his life, and was forgiven anyway.

Really, there's not a lot in the Bible saying "you did X thing that was terrible so now I can't forgive you". Granted, in the Old Testament, there's a lot of "you did X thing that was really terrible so now I have to punish you", so that could be argued either way.

[Pwnzerfaust]

How many good works you do has no effect on the Heaven/Hell thing. Ostensibly.

This is one of the most horrible things about Christianity in my opinion. Taking this to its logical conclusion, it means that as long as you believe in god, you go to heaven. Even if you're monstrous in life. Even if you are literally Hitler, as long as you have faith, you go to heaven. And conversely, no matter how virtuous, good, and kind one is, if one is an atheist, one is going to hell. Any god that would make such a rule isn't worth worshiping.

[tahujdt]

I'm not entirely sure, but it seems to me like if a guy who was equivalent to a saint in his day (Samuel) wanted to appear to Saul, he could do so. See: Moses and Elijah appearing to Jesus and co., various and sundry saints appearing throughout the centuries (we're assuming for the sake of the argument that all that stuff is correct, even if you don't actually believe it.)

Probably, going to the medium is Saul's last-ditch effort to try and get back in Sam's posthumous good graces, and Sam thinking "Holy smokes, the man is desperate", and agreeing to talk to him, if only to say "get outta here, kid, ya bother me".

Also, as far as Biblical law goes, compared to their neighbors, the Jews were pretty straight-and-narrow. Provisions for widows and orphans, limits on slavery, all sorts of crazy stuff.

[Gnorm]

In the end, the belief in Christ saves man from his sinful nature, thus allowing him into Heaven. Good works alone cannot get you there, but should one profess believe in Christ but continue in his sin nonetheless, I don't see him finding Salvation. Forgiveness of one's sin requires one to be legitimately sorry about it, therefore if you commit evil or take Christ for granted, I don't think you have faith in Him.

I'd say that just about every church in the States has its people who attend every Sunday, though take their faith for granted and live in unapologetic sin. I imagine that these people are not saved.

[Leafsnail]

If God is really all-knowing then "cynically perform sins in the hope of one day being forgiven" doesn't seem like a good plan to me.