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No

Only Judeism

Only Islam

Yes to both Judeism and Islam

[Frumple]

That's a logical contradiction, like saying God could move an unmovable object or could create a dog that wasn't a dog. It's an inherently flawed idea.

... last I checked, there isn't a theological consensus among christianity on whether God is capable of logically contradictory actions or not. Some say yes, some say no. Is discussion that has been going on for... over millennium.

[mastahcheese]

I'm not really sure how I percieve a "heaven", to be honest.
Mainly because if the only people who go to them are good people, what happens if you sin in heaven?
Either you lose your free will, or heaven is an illusion that is actually no different from living a good life. Neither one makes sense to me.

[BlindKitty]

Eh, OK, it turns out that this thread moves way too fast, and there are too many people with too many different ideas for me to follow in any kind of logical fashion. Thus:

1. If anybody wants to discuss any religious matter with me, please, PM me. I will try to answers those PMs and it will make it easier for me to talk to you.

2. If you want to know something about specific part of Roman Catholic doctrine, ask a question here. If it is sufficiently limited in scope and no other activity prevents me from doing just that, I will answer it to the best of my knowledge. If you want to do that, please, start your question with my forum name in bold, so I can see it easily, as I will probably be only skimming on the surface of this thread.

3. Sorry, I won't be answering the things already on the thread. If you want me to answer them, just Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V into the PM to me, or as a question with my name in bold on top. Again, sorry about that.

[Orange Wizard]

To me, Heaven is just Earth "started again", if you will, but without a few things. Original sin, and the effects of the Fall, would have to go. So would mankind's natural desire to rebel against God. This leaves us with a "perfect" world, without any random suffering, grief, pain, and so on. Finally, we need to remove every person's ability to commit sin, otherwise it's just Eden all over again.
Yes, this does mean we don't have free will. But did you even have it to begin with?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

How do you guys define "free will", anyway?

[Spehss _]

How do you guys define "free will", anyway?

And then this was the philosophy thread.

If you can question whether your action is being committed of free will or not, then it could probably be considered free will. If you're being forced into doing something you aren't going to wonder "Am I choosing to do this of my own accord or not?"

If you're being mugged at gun point you aren't going to question whether you want to obey the mugger's orders or not. I mean, you could, but most people would probably be more concerned with not getting shot than whether or not they have free will. Course, this parable can call into question of all God's rules and commandments as muggers at gunpoint making you want to obey or get shot. "Do these things or go to hell" sounds a lot like "give me your money or get shot."

Generally though, it seems like if you have the ability to question whether you should do something or not, you have free will. Even if God is coercing us into doing things or else, and He's controlling everything that will ever happen, we still have the ability to question whether or not we should do something. We can still decide not to follow some rule. It's not like we're mindless zombie automatons.

This is just my own philosophical rambling on the question "What is free will?" Maybe I'm talking out of my ass.

[Orange Wizard]

So, if free will is merely the ability to weigh up the consequences of different actions, I suppose we could have free will in Heaven, but everyone's aware of the consequences of sin, so they never do it.
It sounds a little... weird, though.

[Phmcw]

Finally, we need to remove every person's ability to commit sin, otherwise it's just Eden all over again.

So you'd be the brainwashed minions of a genocidal entity that love the smell of burnt flesh in a world he designed to praise him?

You know, Cthulu would merely bring total anihilation, I think I'd rather that.

[Orange Wizard]

At no point did I say Christianity was in any way rational or sensible.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I suppose that's one way to handle it.

[Phmcw]

Is it even moral? If god's morals are not good for humanity, how do you know that there would be no suffering in heaven? Maybe there would be no suffering for god, but life for you would be a living nightmare you can't escape, ever.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

At this point you're looking at a shameless embrace of Divine Command Theory, so morality is rendered irrelevant.

[Orange Wizard]

I don't know. I don't know if God even exists. I don't know if anything I experience is real. I don't even know why I believe what I believe. But right now it's all I've got to go on, so I believe it anyway.

[penguinofhonor]

How do you guys define "free will", anyway?

I don't think we have free will. I think our minds have reached such complexity that it's not easy to predict our actions, giving the illusion of free will. The same way a dice tossed exactly the same way will always land on the same side, but the physics involved in throwing one are too complex to predict the result or to perfectly replicate the original throw.

This means you have to treat people like they have free will, which is a good thing in my book.

That's a logical contradiction, like saying God could move an unmovable object or could create a dog that wasn't a dog. It's an inherently flawed idea.

... last I checked, there isn't a theological consensus among christianity on whether God is capable of logically contradictory actions or not. Some say yes, some say no. Is discussion that has been going on for... over millennium.

Thomas Aquinas agrees with me though! That's a good name to have on your side in Christian theology. He's so Christian they wanted him to replace Thomas Jefferson as one of the founding fathers in Texas schoolbooks.

[freeformschooler]

How do you guys define "free will", anyway?

I don't think we have free will. I think our minds have reached such complexity that it's not easy to predict our actions, giving the illusion of free will. The same way a dice tossed exactly the same way will always land on the same side, but the physics involved in throwing one are too complex to predict the result or to perfectly replicate the original throw.

This means you have to treat people like they have free will, which is a good thing in my book.

Best explained this way: a stray gamma ray could inspire you to murder someone, but you still get life in prison.

[miljan]

How do you guys define "free will", anyway?

I don't think we have free will. I think our minds have reached such complexity that it's not easy to predict our actions, giving the illusion of free will. The same way a dice tossed exactly the same way will always land on the same side, but the physics involved in throwing one are too complex to predict the result or to perfectly replicate the original throw.

This is what I believed to be true, until i started to learn quantum mechanics and all things went to shit