Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Lielac]

I have 3 sleeper judges, nearly half a million cash stored up, and an old, old LCS founder with 87 88 counts of treason (and other fun illegal-but-nonviolent stuff) that I want to try against the court system. How can I turn her in to the police without, y'know, getting her shot on sight?

(I think the counts of treason are for every time she's published something her sleeper agents slipped to her.)

Edit: WELP, my liberal judges lost touch with the LCS because their contact died, and when I got sold out by a conservative date I got arrested, aaaaand then I got 10 consecutive life sentences owwwww.

[SlatersQuest]

If the conservatives are alarmed, and the first person in the enemy squad is a cop, then one of your options is surrender/give up.

Although, with 88 counts of treason, there's not much you can do no matter how good your sleeper lawyer is and have a sleeper judge.

Publishing Secret Documents or the Intelligence HQ Data Disk is treason, as is hacking the CIA mainframe.

[Crinkles]

Is there a particular number of egregious crimes after which it becomes impossible to escape conviction? Even, with a highly effective sleeper judge, a highly-skilled lawyer who does great, and ultra-liberal jurors who have been tampered with?

[Liberal Elitist]

Is there a particular number of egregious crimes after which it becomes impossible to escape conviction? Even, with a highly effective sleeper judge, a highly-skilled lawyer who does great, and ultra-liberal jurors who have been tampered with?

Yes. It isn't hardcoded into the game as such, but trials use mathematical formulas for defense, prosecution, and the jury, so if your crimes add up to a big enough number, it will be bigger than any possible number you could ever get for defense even with the best lawyer, the best jury, a sleeper judge, and the most incompetent prosecutors. The code for this is all in /src/monthly/justice.cpp.

Oh and sleeper judges all have the same effectiveness if they are there at your trial, the only thing that varies is whether they show up in the first place or not, which depends on their infiltration percentage. Sleeper lawyers, on the other hand, always offer to assist you pro bono regardless of infiltration percentage.

Anyway I think that many counts of treason definitely puts you over the limit... so if you go on trial you are guaranteed to, at the very least, get life in prison.

But you will probably be able to escape from prison even if that happens. If you get the death penalty, it is always scheduled for 3 months later, so you are unlikely to escape on your own, you'll need some followers to bust you out of prison by doing a raid on the prison.

Oh wait, automatic escapes from prison only happen in recent SVN versions, not in 4.07.4 beta. So you'll need followers to bust you out of prison regardless, in the version you are playing.

[Lielac]

Is there a particular number of egregious crimes after which it becomes impossible to escape conviction? Even, with a highly effective sleeper judge, a highly-skilled lawyer who does great, and ultra-liberal jurors who have been tampered with?

Yes. It isn't hardcoded into the game as such, but trials use mathematical formulas for defense, prosecution, and the jury, so if your crimes add up to a big enough number, it will be bigger than any possible number you could ever get for defense even with the best lawyer, the best jury, a sleeper judge, and the most incompetent prosecutors. The code for this is all in /src/monthly/justice.cpp.

Oh and sleeper judges all have the same effectiveness if they are there at your trial, the only thing that varies is whether they show up in the first place or not, which depends on their infiltration percentage. Sleeper lawyers, on the other hand, always offer to assist you pro bono regardless of infiltration percentage.

Anyway I think that many counts of treason definitely puts you over the limit... so if you go on trial you are guaranteed to, at the very least, get life in prison.

But you will probably be able to escape from prison even if that happens. If you get the death penalty, it is always scheduled for 3 months later, so you are unlikely to escape on your own, you'll need some followers to bust you out of prison by doing a raid on the prison.

Oh wait, automatic escapes from prison only happen in recent SVN versions, not in 4.07.4 beta. So you'll need followers to bust you out of prison regardless, in the version you are playing.

Hokay! How do I download the revision 840 version that you linked to in this post?

Edit: Figured it out via a little bit of trial and error and oH MY GOD WHAT IS THIS MUSIC WHAT IS THIS MUSIC WHAT THE HECK IS IT SPACEBALLS MUSIC? WHATEVER IT IS IT IS MAGICAL

[Liberal Elitist]

Hokay! How do I download the revision 840 version that you linked to in this post?

Edit: Figured it out via a little bit of trial and error and oH MY GOD WHAT IS THIS MUSIC WHAT IS THIS MUSIC WHAT THE HECK IS IT SPACEBALLS MUSIC? WHATEVER IT IS IT IS MAGICAL

LOL funniest comment I've ever seen on Bay 12 Forums. I've just added it to my signature, you awesome person who says funny things.

Oh and the latest revision is revision 852, available here: http://sourceforge.net/p/lcsgame/code/852/tree/

Also the URL to get the latest revision is here (the "HEAD" revision... LOL... HEAD... hehehehehe): http://sourceforge.net/p/lcsgame/code/HEAD/tree/

[nephilimnexus]

Turn yourself in... at a foreign embassy, and demand asylum.   

[SuicideJunkie]

Should it not be possible to be convicted of only some of the crimes rather than all or nothing?

Perhaps a fairly sharp curve, since the charges would be mostly linked to each other, but given the 0-200 scale of prosecution vs defence tallies:
easy victory (>20)= Not Guilty on all charges
narrow victory(+10 to +20) = 10% chance of Guilty on each individual charge
nailbiter (-10 to +10) = 50% chance of Guilty on each charge if the jury isn't hung.
serious loss (-10 to -20) = 90% chance
total loss (<-20)= Guilty as charged



Or perhaps add some timing info to the crimes structure, so it is harder to convict you for cold case crimes and you mostly get nailed for the more recent ones unless you do particularly bad?

EG: Instead of a single count of crime instances, have an array of four values (Solid, hot, stale, cold).
Each month, there would be a chance of moving some hot crimes to the stale pile, and each year a chance of moving some stale crimes to the cold case pile.
Each day, some of the hot, the occasional stale, and the rare cold case would be nailed down with evidence and moved to the solid slot.  Specific odds would vary depending on police and privacy laws. 
A liberalization event of the laws could perhaps move some crimes from solid to hot as the evidence used becomes inadmissible.

When going up for trial, you'd face all the solid cases, and some of the hot ones, and less of the stale and few of the cold.
When deciding guilt, the different cases would get a different modifier on the jury roll, so hot = +10 defence, stale = +20, cold = +30, and you'd be a bit more likely to get off of the charges with less evidence even if you lose the solid cases.

Liberals already in jail could also get hauled up for another court visit if some crimes move to solid because the cold cases investigators got a good roll that month or a prisoner leaks something under torture or just bad judgement depending on the laws.

[KA101]

Implement fines, etc for the minor ones (no jail time for 3 counts of Vandalism--100, sure) and that sounds great.

[shibby1295]

While we're fantasizing about justice system revamps, how about presidential pardons (or gubernatorial stays of execution)? A first-pass attempt would be to tag each crime with a 'politicalness' rating, such that more political crimes like treason are more likely to get pardoned than random violence. A second-pass might record political attitudes at the time of conviction and make pardon more likely if the country has liberalized since then. It would especially make sense for to get pardoned for things like Harmful Speech and Flag Murder after those cease to be crimes. In any case, the popularity of the LCS should be essential.

[SuicideJunkie]

Hmm.  Would "fine or (debtor's) prison" be a conservative ideal? 
With say C+ meaning you rich people could pay off even murder charges?
And alternatively L+ meaning you could be sentenced to do community service for minor crimes as an activity, perhaps a minimum of N days a month and if you don't do it, then the remaining community service gets converted to a pre-convicted couple months in jail?

[SlatersQuest]

Right now the game does not track what crimes you've committed once you are sentenced, which is why you can get sentences that don't immediately fit (e.g. five consecutive life sentences for over a hundred counts of hacking and electronic sabotage).

I agree that presidential pardon should be incorporated into the rules, somehow, depending on the nature of the crimes. A very high-juice founder with a popular LCS and an L+ president might have reasonable chances of pardon.

[SuicideJunkie]

It might be worth tracking your liberals' total crimes in addition to the untried ones.  Even if just for stats and bragging rights.

If your only crime is flag murder or similar things, and the laws liberalize, wouldn't that mean you should be released from prison?  And if it is a mixed thing, reduced by an appropriate amount?  Or is that not how it works IRL?

[KA101]

It might be worth tracking your liberals' total crimes in addition to the untried ones.  Even if just for stats and bragging rights.

If your only crime is flag murder or similar things, and the laws liberalize, wouldn't that mean you should be released from prison?  And if it is a mixed thing, reduced by an appropriate amount?  Or is that not how it works IRL?

IRL:
More likely to be eligible for an executive pardon/overlook.  Actions that were illegal when you did 'em were still offenses against the State when they happened, even if the law changes to make them no longer illegal.  So you can be punished if the State (as represented by the executive branch, so PD/prosecutors/mayor/governor/president) feels like it.  (In practice, the legislature could include a section specifically removing liability for folks who had previously committed the act but were not yet tried, or even commute the sentences of folks found guilty of the no-longer-a-crime--probably what happens in LCS.)

Conversely, burning a flag at L Flag Burning can't be charged against you if the law later goes to C+, because it wasn't a crime when you did it.

[SuicideJunkie]

I suppose that would mean the chance of a pardon would depend on what triggered the law change (supreme court ruling vs congress bill, vs ballot issue) and which government entities support it by how much.