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[taldarus]

I can't stop laughing...

Boatmurdered Elephants = Teletubbies...

Engraved on the wall is a cuddly teletubby, eating a dwarf covered in the blood of dwarves...

[LMeire]

I think a combat-heavy good civ could be plausible. Maybe a sort of holy-warrior order devoted to honoring the dead and reversing the effects of necromancy? Like taking souls to a temple to "redeem" for a holy wish or favor or whatever to make blessings with. Further reactions would be things like breaking down dreadnought and soulgems to free the trapped souls inside in exchange for more wishes. Maybe include a "Sacred Burial Ground" that functions as a place to dump unbutcherable bodyparts while maybe generating a wish in return.

For added fun you could add in some secret FUN like

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

a secret group of heretics and/or warlocks that slowly take over the fort like Carp God cultists take over dwarf forts.

[taldarus]

I don't think that will be an issue. As I said

1-sudo paladin angel race
2-Teletubbies (LOL, can't resist the horror! of the elite unit is Barney! he dances and the enemies drop weapons and play with him)
3 -leprechauns (your suggestion)
4 - 40k version of good.

Both number 1 and four are similar in idea to what you are looking for. The hidden fun has been mentioned by several people, and as I want to play this, I think I am willing to create it. Hopefully, it would be able to blend with masterwork, but I think meph is more looking for a teletubby type race 

Good are unicorns and elves and feather trees and golden salve.

Ideally, I would like others to participate. My guess is Sagus will be creating number 3. So the only one in question is number 4. It's a little too crossover for me, so i probably shall not. This is still early storyboard though. I hadn't thought of the divine half-angel aspect, and really think that would work well. If people think angels are not combat ready, then they need to google angel...

What kind of workshop interactions would people be looking for? What kind of industries etc? Workshops are not my thing at all... I think Sagus has some good ideas there, but I think he is slipping off to make his own thing right now...

EDIT: Looking up on angels at all. Apparently they are an adventure thing. Never touch that either...

[IndigoFenix]

I once made a race called Murpets.  They were underground, fuzzy muppet-ish creatures that came in every possible color, basically Fraggles.  They had no internal organs so they were really basically impossible to kill without bladed weapons, but were also too soft to do much damage in combat.  I didn't have any serious gameplay ideas for them though, they were designed as a joke subterranean tribal civ.

[taldarus]

Ok, really want to see your murpets. It sounds awesome. Make harmless everything. So how do you stop invasions...
From a genetics code side, how did you effect their strength (assuming you didn't use the attributes)? You made them soft, altered the skin tissue file? Or did you use a bronze colossus and just swap bronze out for something soft... *scratchs head* something soft.... Yeah got no clue... Sounds like it was fun!

Note: I really dislike using the attributes, as they make modding creatures lame. Is there a way to influence physical strength via muscle tissue? I had something the size of a dog that could pick up elephants, but there was something that would always break in the process. Just curious

However, I must focus. I looked up Hidden Upstairs Fun (HuF's?), they are kinda spoilers apparently. Kinda monstrous in appearance however. Not sure how I feel about that, nor how I should work the divine armor aspect. The armor is close to my 'blessed' armor idea. I assume no one has messed with the [divine] token?

I actually made a race that was extremely amorphous, but I don't know where my race USB is. The race would work fairly well with this one, if we go monstrous angel. I assume people use castes to create a variety of 'shapes', it's how I did it. I would prefer a percentage modifier... 35% 3 arms kinda thing. I am guessing thats not there.

EDIT: L'Meire - The issue we are primarily snagging on is this. What you are describing is fairly similar to an evil race.

Do the take the souls of the dead? Yes.
Do they use the souls to power reactions? Yes.
Do they use corpses to as their main resource? Yes.

Go play warlocks, but make them good. I like the concept of sudo-paladins A LOT, but I am looking for a process where they avoid corpses as a resources also any other resource for that matter. A form of divine intervention kinda thing is fun, but that starts going the direction of warlocks and such. I liked my idea of using caravans as your only resource, but no one else seemed to be interested. It could make the game brutally hard. It would also leave room for doubt in the minds of people. Are these men REALLY divine? Do they really serve ....? They need us to send them food and armor, thats not very divine.. *whispered* His sword cuts through steel like it was butter... *everyone shivers* Sounds fun to me... They would have magic, but I would want something interesting (not corpses) to power it. Just thought of using relics. Blessed items to fuel reactions could work...

[LMeire]

I was thinking more along the lines of "guiding the souls to heaven and for a small chance of getting favor with the divines for my selflessness" than "force the souls into my shiny new sword to get more souls to force into more shiny swords". And the Burial Ground was suggested as more of a replacement for the crematory- minus any ash you would get from it because burning the dead when they should be properly buried is just pointlessly mean.

What I'm getting at is that so far only the gnomes respect dead members of other civilizations, (Maybe, I  have a hard time with minecarts and rarely get far with them.) and even they treat their own dead as a mild inconvenience compared to how they treat giant insects.

Dwarves practice ritual sapient sacrifice and desecrate corpses to make bloodsteel, Elves kill people for picking flowers and desecrate corpses for lunch, Humans trade with literally everyone which indicates that they'll condone anything as long as it makes them money, plus they might actually raise the dead after trading with Warlocks- none of the existing "good guys" seem to have any problems with supposedly "evil" activities. Which means that there's an open niche besides total pacifism for an approach to killing lots of things while still rightfully claiming to be "gooder than good".

If you drop the whole "actively using souls instead of letting them wither away" (Which I guess could be interpreted as a sort of "moving on" by itself), I can see angel/paladins storming a warlock tower with the specific intention of freeing the trapped souls within their phylacteries, dreadnought, and minions. Sort of like a much more justified version of the RL Spanish invasion of the Yucatan: find site filled with rich, cannibalistic cultists and the "evil" objects they use to commit atrocities > kill cultists for their atrocities > destroy "evil" objects on principle/to ensure a spot for themselves in heaven > take back a hefty profit for a job well done.

[slay_mithos]

You know, gameplay speaks more than background informations.

No matter how you spin it, your gameplay seems to be very similar to what is usually seen as an evil race (killing all that moves, using the soul of the fallen).

All we are saying is that putting a backstory of serving a god rather than a devil doesn't make a race being on the "good" side.

In theory, no race in DF is really "good", even the elves have a lot of story of massacre and eating corpses in their stories, and there is no real "bad" or "evil", when even demons can lead other civilizations to hundreds of years of actual prosperity.
I personally like it a lot, because it contrasts a lot with most of the fantasy of good vs evil black and white worlds.

You will note that the races the least inclined to the evil ways are called 'civilized', not 'good'.

By the way, if we follow your reasoning, shouldn't other groups of those "paladins" go after other groups of paladins too?
I mean, they are committing atrocities all around the world, killing entire population they themselves labelled as "evil", to loot their wealth.


Well, we are all going around, because no matter how you spin it, a civilization based on mass murder can't qualify as "good" for at least some of us, "for greater good" and "fighting evil" are something that's been used a lot, in our History, to massacre innocent people and non combatants.
Some of the worst atrocities around the globe have been (and still are) in the name of "god" (or whatever name it has), to punish evil.
Your example of the Spanish is pretty much what I mean too, greedy people manipulate others in the name of "good" to enact some of the worst acts the human race is able to commit.


As you can probably tell, I don't really like people that try to justify killing by posing as saviors or good people, and I'd rather not have it in a game, unless it is actually justified to have such things.
In the end, I'll just do like I did for the banshee (and probably the wasps, when they come around, for other reasons), which is simply disable them entirely.

Just a thing, no matter how you intend to do things, you should change the title to reflect that it's more about fanatics, or "crusaders" if you prefer that term, than "good race", because it seems that I'm not the only one to be mislead, ensuing a conversation that don't actually help anyone in the end, right?

[LMeire]

Fair enough, I've always played DF for the stories myself, but I can see why most would rather play a game for the game. Also, I never meant to imply that killing people could somehow be morally justified IRL; I just figured Spanish colonialism fit with the "Crusades-y" feel of the race that taldarus seemed to be trying to establish for the first two pages or so.

[Meph]

My idea for a good race was using IndigoFenix exile/release into the wilds script, and triggering it on entire invasions. Siege comes, you "negotiate with/charm" them, all hostiles turn friendly and leave the map after a while, together with the next caravan.

Druidism and interactions are used to make peace with the wildlife.

In short, you get a civ that can handle animals, monsters and sieges without violence.

[Emperor]

Handling the dangers of the world without violence? Perhaps you guys should make an abbey with monks?
You know...Making wine, writing books, sheltering orphans, and when some bad guys show up, they lock up their monastery and pray to the Divines for protection. No violence, and some interesting (at least for a while) gameplay.

[taldarus]

wow looks like things got interesting today... (Non-Disclosure: I AM REALLY TIRED< just finished an 11 hour work day...)

Slay mithos... I agree with you, but I disagree... I would say it a bit nicer by saying what I did at the beginning. It is how many people justify there actions. I would however, from personal experience, say that most extremists are not out to get rich. That is what I am trying to say. Most often the very top of a religious zealot order has bad motives, but the ones who carry out the deeds are just zealots. They truly believe it is the right thing. I would point out to re-read my title, apparently my subtle irony is too far subtle. Although I did forget air quotes on the good and evil parts. I don't know how to do air quotes with a keyboard

The spanish was not what I was trying to compare with, but it could work I suppose. I would reference prince arthas in warcraft III (apparently my better references went over peoples heads). He truly desires to protect his people from the undead, and that is a good motive. In a world with warlocks and zombies vs unicorns and feather trees. How does the 'good' hold the 'evil' at bay. It is the dividing line that must be walked by men of true valor. Personally, I would love to meet a man that defends the helpless from attrocities and horrors (evil biomes are pretty nasty), but I would never forget he is a soldier. Soldiers, no matter what cause they stand far are monsters

EG - Serenity's bad guy, if you haven't watched the movie watch it, but first watch the tv show. GO NOW. the man is a monster but he truly desires to make a better world, the sad thing is that he is wrong, as Serenity is fairly realistic. I dream of men like that in a world were there is a TRUE EVIL. As stated by the biomes description. It is a fantasy, and is intended to allow me an escape to a better world. *Cues dramatic music* A world of murpets and warlocks, fighting on fields crystaline glory. A world of dwarven drunks building enormous C(*KS, a world of.... Boatmurdered.

 I truly mean no offense, but I would also ask you to consider how you come across. If something personal has happened to you because of those kinds of people, I am in the same place as you. This is not a place for such a discussion, I would think (may the moderators strike me down if I am wrong ) I would happily offer to commiserate in an appropriate forum, I completely disagree with the mentality IRL, as I have lost friends to such. I am readily able to chat on QQ (Although that is not common in America, is it?)

L'Meiere - I liked what you said, but am about to fall asleep....So I can't remember or scroll down..

Meph - WHERES MY MURPET/TELETUBBIES!?!?!? *CRIES*

Emporer - Go to a REAL monastery....If you want a simulated one... WOW, just WOW.

[Emperor]

Don't worry, crazy ideas are my specialty. Expect more soon.

[IndigoFenix]

Murpets had a similar physiology to fluffy wamblers with a more humanoid body plan, and a little bigger than kobolds.  Fur and skin, stuffed with (non-functional) fluff, with no vital organs or blood, so basically the only way to kill them was by chopping their head off (although now that pulping is a thing they should be much easier to kill with blunt weapons).  No teeth or claws, and their only attacks were a flailing slap that had a low velocity modifier so it did little damage and a toothless bite attack.  They usually killed by swarming and strangling their enemies although even in groups they were usually more annoying than dangerous.  They also had a lot of castes, male and female for every possible color, and their actual fur had different colors which was a stupid amount of extra work but it was kind of the whole point.  They were never intended as a playable race so I don't really know how they would repel invasions, they were more of an underground easter egg than anything.  Maybe they could sing really annoying songs and cause enemies to run away.

I lost the original files but recreating them wouldn't be too difficult, just tedious.

[taldarus]

Wow, Just wrote out the perfect post. It took an hour to write, and my browser crashed....*Crawls into bed and cries*

[MDFification]

It seems heavily warhammer inspired, which does not have any good races. Everyone is a bloody fanatic bend on killing everyone else.

I think that's Warhammer 40k you're talking about. Warhammer Fantasy does have morally good races; high elves and dwarves spring to mind. They're pragmatic, chaotic good (leaning a little towards neutral in the case of the dwarves) but good nonetheless. Of course, I get your point; DF doesn't really do good/evil since you have to let the player entertain themselves by burning merchants alive for free goods, feeding citizens to vampires because that cheesemaker isn't worth a tantrumming immortal supersoldier and throwing children into the arena because they were bored.

That being said; if you want to try a good race with a heavy monastic/knightly order focus, you could have a multispecies civ (in terms of castes) and automatically run syndromes when they enter the map to sterilize them all. Make a system akin to the gnome druid system, which gives you a counter for good deeds; something considered evil lowers it. For example, killing members of specific entity types will lower the score, as will allowing children to die. Basically, the goal of such a system should be to allow you to use powerful magics (i.e. pacify a siege) for a cost of morality points, or to recruit new members (force immigration, followed by sterilization) for a cost of morality points. You then can't get complacent, because you're forced to keep doing good deeds (export charity goods, slay monsters and raiders, host wise men as they write tomes, etc) to keep your numbers from dropping.