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[3man75]

So not too long ago i changed my major from psychology to economics. In psychology i thought about becoming a researcher or a Human resources consultant for business or government. But i looked at the huge unemployment and..it looks grim tbh. Alot of friends have cosigned that it's very hard to get a job with that major in hand (despite human brain power being involved in everything.) so i decided to switch.

Now i'm in economy an i feel i'm learning the math fair enough but i don't know if i can say it from my heart that i...well like it. With this i was thinking of working as a economist for a research group or work in the traveling industry as a accountant or cost analyst.

I've grown to like math more but i'm just not sure really if i'll be happier learning psychology rather than economy. Proof of that is how i have a pretty forgivinvg teacher but when a question on how to mix coffe comes up i just pull out my cheat sheet. I swear i can never learn how to remember how to do that type problem on my own, it sucks to not be good at something you'll dedicate your life too. Or maybe i'm exagerating idk that too.

All i know is that on the 23 of this month i have my first test and although i feel i'm going to get an A, i still won't know what i REALLY want. An i wish there was a magic bullet to help me find that answer.

[LordBucket]

Another life question

What question? Because I've read your post twice and done a text search for question marks...and I see no question anywhere. The closest I see is this:

i still won't know what i REALLY want. An i wish there was a magic bullet to help me find that answer.

If the question is "what do I really want?" it's likely that nobody here will be able to answer that for you.

What's your question?

[3man75]

fail on my part.

Basically should i continue to chase money and work to understand math to the point that i like it/tolerate it for a living or should i go back to becoming a psychologist?

I was thinking of being a counseling psychologist by getting my masters or maybe Ph.d (yes i PHD= no life/no sleep/unhealthiness but hey knowledge.). But should i go disregard the unemployment rates and competition?

[3man75]

i think i'm just going to lock this.

[3man75]

Question: Are there careers out there that aren't math intensive?

I've looked at Computer science and being a Dentist but after failing so hard at algebra this semester to the point of dropping out to save my GPA, i don't know if i can even complete a bache in those fields or be able to do my job effectively if math comes into the equation (no pun intended).

So yeah, money making careers without math? Possible?

[LordBucket]

Are there careers out there that aren't math intensive?

Yes, pretty much most of them. People claim that careers are math intensive, but very few are.

Computer science

I haven't personally worked in the computer industry for over a decade now, but it's traditionally been a field where a degree is entirely optional. If you're able to do a thing, a degree isn't as important, and if you're not able, then having the degree won't help. For example, if you want to do desktop support, or administer networks or something, math is irrelevant and you can easily skip the degree and simply go get a few certifications for a tenth the time and cost. If you want to graphic design or build websites, then you don't even need the certifications. Build a portfolio instead. But if you want to be a programmer, you absolutely need the math, and no degree or certification is going to matter. You can't realistically expect to program without being comfortable with math.

But either way I'm assuming that you're actually able to the whatever it is you want to do. "Computer science" is vague. So I wonder if you're looking at this from the point of view of "I have no skills and no idea what to do, what sounds good? I'll get a degree for it." I think that's not the best mindset from which to pursue a computer career. I've been involved in hiring before. The guy with a piece of paper and no skill just doesn't get hired. Don't think that a bachelor's in CS will make you in demand. It won't.

So yeah, money making careers without math? Possible?

Again, most of them. Receptionists don't need to understand math. Plumbers don't need to understand math. Hollywood background extras don't need to understand math. Residential electricians don't need to understand math. Construction workers, writers, drivers, most government jobs, real estate agents, car salesmen...go down the list, there are actually very few professions where math beyond basic addition and multiplication is something that matters. Programmers, engineers, astronomers, physicists, statistician, accountants, and...yeah, that's all that comes immediately mind. And even accountants don't necessarily need anything even as complicated as high school algebra, since an awful lot of accounting is data entry and filling out forms.

Oh, you might need math for the degree you associate with any profession. But college is fantasy with very little relevance to the real world.

What do you want to do? Just, make money? How much money? What are you good at? Are you personable? Go sell cars. No degree, no school, no certifications, no paper...all you need to do is be able sell cars. Dealerships have incredibly high employee turnover. Sell them on you, and they'll hire you. When they ask why you want the job, "admit" to them you desperately want to make a lot of money. They like that. Do you have basic computer user knowledge, typing skills and a good phone voice? Go to a temp agency and ask for office work.

What do you want to do? What are your expectations? "Money making" is vague, and "no math" doesn't put much of a dent in the available options.

[3man75]

1. Does it matter if i get a bachelors in Psychology? It seems pieces of graduating paper are just to get past the first wave of Human resources hiring. "He's got a degree..okay next pile. When's my break?"

2. Yes although i'm 20 and I've more or less lived with computers i don't know how to program or fix them. Yesterday i was told by a mechanic that his Psychology Professor told him that it's a dying field. He recommended i get into computers since it's the way of the future.

3. When you say college is unrealistic with math (an i may be taking that out of context) does that include University also? I always found it weird how statistics was required for a Psychologist but thought it was because they needed to know how to take a survey. Which i found weird because all you had to do was ask people to fill out a piece of paper.

4. The kind of money i can move out and live on my own while still going to things like this: http://www.magiccitycomiccon.com/ Still vague i know but lol.

What can i say at 20 y/0 i still like this stuff 

[smeeprocket]

Finish college in some manner. Preferably not with a degree in liberal arts. Or really any art degree.

One thing to remember is, if you get a well-paying job that you less than hate, you can always use all that delicious money to get a degree in the fun thing and pursue that at your leisure.

Math is... really important. And it is hugely important for programmers.

That said, at 20 you will find it difficult to muscle through anything that you don't thoroughly enjoy regardless of the long term gains.

So I don't have any good advice, except that at 35 or 40 you will have wished you will have pursued a degree in something that allowed you to pay off your student loans and live comfortably. But it won't change things now.

I want to say that if you really like psychology you should stick with that, but life doesn't work that way. It's full of regrets. If you stick with psychology and end up unemployed you will regret not doing something else, but if you major in something you don't really like and hate your job you'll wish you had majored in psychology.

[3man75]

Everything i'm paying for is covered by FAFSA (aka the goverment) fully because of my poverty. Which although isn't very bad (or maybe it is but i'm use to it   ) covers everything.

Still maybe i should look into computer related fields. I really want a 10$-12$ paying job here before another recession or super inflation. An although i REALLY like studying the mind i just don't want to be homeless. I see too much of that around here and its traumatizing to go to sleep wondering out loud if i can live such a miserable life if i don't get that same job.

Thank you all for your input. I'll be open to anything else but as always i'm stuck at square 1 in life again 

[gimlet]

One problem is, you're not likely to get a job "studying the mind" with just a bachelor's degree - there will be tons of at least MS, most likely PhD guys competing for all the obvious cool entry level positions especially those involving anything approaching research.  Now that's not to say you can't *eventually* worm your way in some way or another, just be aware that that's pretty likely to be several years of searching and maneuvering your career, and probably taking even more coursework to position yourself to compete better for the openings that do come up.

If you want to do some research to find out, one step is to go to your college placement office (or whatever it's called) and ask the placement counselor what companies hire grads in your field, what positions they get, what kind of career tracks they have, that kind of thing.   Ask what percent of grads in your field get jobs in their field - if you hear something like "75% go to work at Starbucks" take that as a big warning sign   Talk to some seniors who are job hunting and find out how it's going, talk to some of the grad students too and see what they're shooting for.

If there are companies that send recruiters to your school, see if you can talk to them, and ask the same kinds of questions.  If your school has an interning program, strongly consider it.  It's not that you'll be doing enormously enlightening work as an intern, but you'll at least meet and get to talk to people who are actually working in your field - pick their brains on what you'll need to do to advance your career (or even get a foot in the door if it's super competitive), especially the managers.  And you'll see the kind of work they actually do - if it looks like you'll absolutely hate it, even 3-4 job promotions into the future, that's another sign to think hard about alternatives.

And if it looks really bleak (or even just to check for alternatives), go to your guidance department/counsellors/whatever they're called and take one or more aptitude tests, ours was the Kuder.   It will spit out a list of careers that more-or-less match your preferences.  Filter it further by what you think you'd enjoy doing, cross referenced with job availability/career potential (ie "astronaut" might be the top match for your preferences, but good luck getting to be one of the handful in the world).  For something like psychology, watch out, because a lot of the actual entry level jobs might be "social worker" type positions - fine if you think you'd like it but it's sure not for everyone.

Another thing to consider is blending the study you like with something marketable and general, unfortunately the obvious ones I can think of are math+psych or computer programming+psych.  Then you can shoot for support positions ideally utilizing both fields -that way you're at least in the door with contacts in your field.  Build up your network of people, especially make a point to keep in touch with those who go to different companies - you can then pick their brains about openings/career paths there, and if they think you're a good worker they might put in a word for you, or even recruit you.  And even if you can't get a job using both, if it was just the non-psych one, you still gain experience that will help your marketability in psych because you can still make a convincing argument that "solid programming experience plus my psych coursework + interest + continuing study in psych blah blah".

Anyway, good luck!

[LordBucket]

Does it matter if i get a bachelors in Psychology? It seems pieces of graduating paper are just to get past the first wave of Human resources hiring. "He's got a degree..okay next pile. When's my break?"

...yes, and no. What you're describing can and does happen, but there are a lot professions that just don't work that way. If you're going to be a doctor, you need an MD. "Any degree" won't help you. If you get into accounting, I think they pretty much expect your degree to be in accounting, even though there's actually no requirement to have a degree at all unless you're planning to be a CPA. For example, if you know quickbooks, you can conceivably get a job doing AP/AR with no degree at all.

The positions your'e talking about are the ones where HR has one position to fill and they get 100 applicants. the job doesn't need a degree, but half the applicants have one and half don't, so they toss the ones that don't to simplify the process. But that makes you one of 50 instead of one of 100. Is that worth four years of your life?

There are a lot of cases where a degree just doesn't matter. Look at vocational schools. If you try to get a job as a plumber or an electrician or something and say "Hi! I have a psychology degree!" they're going to laugh in your face. College just isn't the path to take to get hose kinds of jobs. Alternately, if you have an MCSE or a Cisco certificate, that would probably open a lot more doors for you than a computer science degree.

Then there are results driven positions where paper doesn't matter at all. If you're good at sales, nobody cares one tiny bit what pieces of paper you have. I used to sell cars for Toyota. My background at the time was computers. They asked me why I was even applying, since I had no sales experience. I told them I was tired of making less than six figures and wanted to be rich like all my friends. They put me in their sales training program and hired me on the spot.

So, this thing you're talking about having a degree getting you past HR, yes that does happen. And sometimes it doesn't. A degree will hold open some doors for you that might otherwise have been closed. But it's certainly no magic wand that will make things happen for you and it's not the only option. I know a woman with a law degree who's been chronically unemployed for as long as I've known her. I know a millionaire high school dropout. And yes, I also know people who knuckled down, spent 7-8 years in school getting pieces of paper and now they're making six figures.

But the degree is not magic, and it's not required to live a decent life. It's a valid option. Not the only option.

When you say college is unrealistic with math (an i may be taking that out of context) does that include University also?

I'm not sure what I said that prompted that question. As you say, that might have been a context issue.

The kind of money i can move out and live on my own while still going to things like this: http://www.magiccitycomiccon.com/ Still vague i know but lol.

Heh. Comic con. I tried to go to the San Diego con last year but couldn't get tickets. Need to find somebody who's gone before so I can get it on the previous attendee early sale.

Your expectations are very low. Live on your own, have fun. Ok. That's, what...$30,000 a year? Florida is cheap, so 25k, maybe? You certainly don't need to be making six figures for what you want. Here's a thought: it sounds like you have a safe, comfortable nest. Living with parents (I assume), college is paid for, there's no reason to drop out and plenty of reasons not to.

But...I would advise you to investigate other options. For example, if somebody offered you a $12-$15/hr job right now, would you take it? If you could live the life you want right now, without spending a couple more years in school and hoping that the job market hasn't become worse in that time, would you?

I really want a 10$-12$ paying job

I'll take that as a yes.

So why not look into it? For example, it's $188 to take the A+ certification test. That's an entry level computer desktop support certificate. No classes, no college required. Walk in, take the test. Now, I highly recommend that you don't just walk in. Download test materials. Take sample tests. Learn the material. That's something you can easily do in your spare time for free. And then once you have it, go apply for a couple jobs. Or alternately, Try a technical recruiting agency. At one time, TekSystems used to offer a deal where they'd put you through a six week course to prepare you for the A+ in exchange for signing a non-competition agreement, and once you passed the test they'd hire you. Deals like that might still exist.

Or if you don't want to do computers, maybe get a forklift certification. Entry level for a forklift operator is in the $10-$12/hr range, and once you have some experience, median pay is $33,000/yr. I mean, we're not talking lots of money here, but it's enough to do what you want. And you might be able to do it now without years more in college. And if you take night classes instead of day classes you probably don't even need to leave the safety net you have, while you're making money that might turn into a career able to give you the life you want,

Don't want to drive forklifts?Why not get a commercial driving license? AIPB bookking certification? Become a licensed tax preparer? Get a security guard card? Maybe become a licensed real estate sales agent and sell houses? No degree required. Only a 63 hour course. I took mine through a local real estate office. It was under $200.

There are so many options other than college.

Why not look into them?

[KingBacon]

Economics PhD student here. If you got questions, I got answers.

Grad school isn't too bad, you get to sleep in a lot more than in the private sector. It also has it's drawbacks; I mean there are no women in economics, so if you are single you won't be meeting people through school...

If you can get into a mid tier grad program or above, it is free and will have good job prospects at the end. Getting into said program is the difficult part. If you just want to make money and play with data, get some sort of computer programing certification through classes (SAS, Java, SQL.) If your professors have connections, you might be able to get a job at a think tank or the Federal Reserve (their cafeteria is awesome) as a research analyst. 

[3man75]

I've heard networking can be mega helpful in getting positions in life. How exactly do people go about that? Are you there friend or a good co-worker they remember?

Economics PhD student here. If you got questions, I got answers.

Grad school isn't too bad, you get to sleep in a lot more than in the private sector. It also has it's drawbacks; I mean there are no women in economics, so if you are single you won't be meeting people through school...

If you can get into a mid tier grad program or above, it is free and will have good job prospects at the end. Getting into said program is the difficult part. If you just want to make money and play with data, get some sort of computer programming certification through classes (SAS, Java, SQL.) If your professors have connections, you might be able to get a job at a think tank or the Federal Reserve (their cafeteria is awesome) as a research analyst. 

Isn't there a ton and a half of math invovled with economics? Statistics, calculus, discrete math, and possibly more that i am missing.

[smeeprocket]

Does it matter if i get a bachelors in Psychology? It seems pieces of graduating paper are just to get past the first wave of Human resources hiring. "He's got a degree..okay next pile. When's my break?"

...yes, and no. What you're describing can and does happen, but there are a lot professions that just don't work that way. If you're going to be a doctor, you need an MD. "Any degree" won't help you. If you get into accounting, I think they pretty much expect your degree to be in accounting, even though there's actually no requirement to have a degree at all unless you're planning to be a CPA. For example, if you know quickbooks, you can conceivably get a job doing AP/AR with no degree at all.

The positions your'e talking about are the ones where HR has one position to fill and they get 100 applicants. the job doesn't need a degree, but half the applicants have one and half don't, so they toss the ones that don't to simplify the process. But that makes you one of 50 instead of one of 100. Is that worth four years of your life?

There are a lot of cases where a degree just doesn't matter. Look at vocational schools. If you try to get a job as a plumber or an electrician or something and say "Hi! I have a psychology degree!" they're going to laugh in your face. College just isn't the path to take to get hose kinds of jobs. Alternately, if you have an MCSE or a Cisco certificate, that would probably open a lot more doors for you than a computer science degree.

Then there are results driven positions where paper doesn't matter at all. If you're good at sales, nobody cares one tiny bit what pieces of paper you have. I used to sell cars for Toyota. My background at the time was computers. They asked me why I was even applying, since I had no sales experience. I told them I was tired of making less than six figures and wanted to be rich like all my friends. They put me in their sales training program and hired me on the spot.

So, this thing you're talking about having a degree getting you past HR, yes that does happen. And sometimes it doesn't. A degree will hold open some doors for you that might otherwise have been closed. But it's certainly no magic wand that will make things happen for you and it's not the only option. I know a woman with a law degree who's been chronically unemployed for as long as I've known her. I know a millionaire high school dropout. And yes, I also know people who knuckled down, spent 7-8 years in school getting pieces of paper and now they're making six figures.

But the degree is not magic, and it's not required to live a decent life. It's a valid option. Not the only option.

When you say college is unrealistic with math (an i may be taking that out of context) does that include University also?

I'm not sure what I said that prompted that question. As you say, that might have been a context issue.

The kind of money i can move out and live on my own while still going to things like this: http://www.magiccitycomiccon.com/ Still vague i know but lol.

Heh. Comic con. I tried to go to the San Diego con last year but couldn't get tickets. Need to find somebody who's gone before so I can get it on the previous attendee early sale.

Your expectations are very low. Live on your own, have fun. Ok. That's, what...$30,000 a year? Florida is cheap, so 25k, maybe? You certainly don't need to be making six figures for what you want. Here's a thought: it sounds like you have a safe, comfortable nest. Living with parents (I assume), college is paid for, there's no reason to drop out and plenty of reasons not to.

But...I would advise you to investigate other options. For example, if somebody offered you a $12-$15/hr job right now, would you take it? If you could live the life you want right now, without spending a couple more years in school and hoping that the job market hasn't become worse in that time, would you?

I really want a 10$-12$ paying job

I'll take that as a yes.

So why not look into it? For example, it's $188 to take the A+ certification test. That's an entry level computer desktop support certificate. No classes, no college required. Walk in, take the test. Now, I highly recommend that you don't just walk in. Download test materials. Take sample tests. Learn the material. That's something you can easily do in your spare time for free. And then once you have it, go apply for a couple jobs. Or alternately, Try a technical recruiting agency. At one time, TekSystems used to offer a deal where they'd put you through a six week course to prepare you for the A+ in exchange for signing a non-competition agreement, and once you passed the test they'd hire you. Deals like that might still exist.

Or if you don't want to do computers, maybe get a forklift certification. Entry level for a forklift operator is in the $10-$12/hr range, and once you have some experience, median pay is $33,000/yr. I mean, we're not talking lots of money here, but it's enough to do what you want. And you might be able to do it now without years more in college. And if you take night classes instead of day classes you probably don't even need to leave the safety net you have, while you're making money that might turn into a career able to give you the life you want,

Don't want to drive forklifts?Why not get a commercial driving license? AIPB bookking certification? Become a licensed tax preparer? Get a security guard card? Maybe become a licensed real estate sales agent and sell houses? No degree required. Only a 63 hour course. I took mine through a local real estate office. It was under $200.

There are so many options other than college.

Why not look into them?

incidentally, Florida is only cheap because the average income is lower. The only people that benefit are the people already retired.

Actually, what am I saying? Florida isn't cheap at all. Maybe cheaper than New York, I guess, but not something I'd aim for when it comes to cheap. (Also it's a cess pit)

Here's the real question, OP, what do you WANT to do? What do you feel you are capable of accomplishing that you would enjoy doing?

Because it seems like you are very focused on making money but not thinking through the fact that all of the jobs you have listed are very heavy on math, and you might not even enjoy doing them.

If you want to squeak by the math issue with programming, go to a business college, it will not require things like calculus. But if you are struggling with algebra, programming isn't a very good option for you.

I'm not saying the money will come, follow your heart. I wish I was saying that but there's a lot of very poor art majors out there that might disagree.

What I'm saying is, college is a long term debt, so you want to use it, at least the first time around, to get yourself set up in a manner that allows you to live -comfortably- and not hate your life.

Have you consider computer and electrical engineering? That is the physical side of computers. I was looking into that at one point. The cool thing about going to say ITT and getting a degree in that is not only do you know all about the guts of computers, you can probably also rewire a house.

I do not know how heavy the math is for that but I have heard it is lucrative. It involves a growing field, just a different end of it, and it will probably involve a lot less math.

I always felt like I would have done better if I had maybe taken a year off from school between high school and college. That is also an option. You seem very undecided. Maybe you should take a year off and figure out what you want going forward.

[3man75]

incidentally, Florida is only cheap because the average income is lower. The only people that benefit are the people already retired.

Actually, what am I saying? Florida isn't cheap at all. Maybe cheaper than New York, I guess, but not something I'd aim for when it comes to cheap. (Also it's a cess pit)

Here's the real question, OP, what do you WANT to do? What do you feel you are capable of accomplishing that you would enjoy doing?

Because it seems like you are very focused on making money but not thinking through the fact that all of the jobs you have listed are very heavy on math, and you might not even enjoy doing them.

If you want to squeak by the math issue with programming, go to a business college, it will not require things like calculus. But if you are struggling with algebra, programming isn't a very good option for you.

I'm not saying the money will come, follow your heart. I wish I was saying that but there's a lot of very poor art majors out there that might disagree.

What I'm saying is, college is a long term debt, so you want to use it, at least the first time around, to get yourself set up in a manner that allows you to live -comfortably- and not hate your life.

Have you consider computer and electrical engineering? That is the physical side of computers. I was looking into that at one point. The cool thing about going to say ITT and getting a degree in that is not only do you know all about the guts of computers, you can probably also rewire a house.

I do not know how heavy the math is for that but I have heard it is lucrative. It involves a growing field, just a different end of it, and it will probably involve a lot less math.

I always felt like I would have done better if I had maybe taken a year off from school between high school and college. That is also an option. You seem very undecided. Maybe you should take a year off and figure out what you want going forward.
[/quote]

1. Our last Governors race showed how bad Florida is. My Armok did they just spend millions of dollars on a State election? Not a Presidential race a Governors race where in the end the legislature is locked in anyways. anyways politics aside, yes it sucks. Here in south florida i deal with alot of douchebags who think the world revolves around them.


2. I've been wanting to find that out for sometime. I've been really wanting to move out but i need money. My mom has locked me in my house for her convenience since i was 15. My brother is slightly autistic but is cared for and spoiled to the point that he has a car all for himself. Hell, he's started fights and punched me in the face but i always get blamed since they think he's too special for any punishment. Only now has my dad decided to let me live with him for a bit but i know that's only for awhile.

It could be that i just want to live alone away from them all. But i have no money and what's more is that i could be wrong. I could actually be wrong about what i want. That's infuriating in of itself. People at my age are blasting off going to the State department as FSO fellows and i'm stuck in one spot looking at there success.

3. I believe FAFSA is on a time limit and currently because of my Poverty it pays for everything i need and more. I guess that's one good thing about being dirt poor in the states...

That said, i'm not sure if i have the time to take a year off but maybe i'll do that.

What i want to know is if  i'll burn out in the process of doing this like last time. I think my friend said it best when he said "you won't find what you want in life because you change your mind too much."