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[than402]

no. shall i put venom?

[Vitellozzo]

Mmmmh, I really can't speak for balance, so I just cannot help you with this sort of things.

Although most castes are smaller than a man, their bites and their stings hold a potent poison, and their carapaces are as hard as metal.

This is from the manual (and maybe it's not even the only part which suggests it). That's the only reason I'm asking this.
Biologically speaking, it's not even that strange to deliver venom through mandibles. Fire Ants do that.

[than402]

yeah but wasps deliver poison from their stings. i like the balance as it is, and their bite will already receive a buff (it will be a pierced attack once more), so i'll just correct the manual

[Vitellozzo]

Yes, it's good as it is now. With the manual update I'll forget about this madness entirely.

Anyway, do you think mandibles will make fighters use them more? Since I've read the dwarven pattern where they try to bite only if they are trained in the biter skill, not like beast-like creatures which possess other forms of attack besides what they are holding.

[than402]

how often a creature will use a particular attack doesn't depend on how effective the attack is. it depends on the skill level the attack uses (and how high the creature has it) and if the attack is set to be primary or secondary. i've set the bite as a primary attack and it's fairly effective (which means that soldier who like biting will live to raise the skill), so yes. expect to see a lot of dwarven hands shaken off by angry wasps.

[Vitellozzo]

Yeah, that's nice!
I was asking since 0xp biters tend to never bite anyone!

:edit: Anyway, are royal scorpions' eggs suppose to ever hatch? I have those female scorpions sitting on their eggs since the start of this fort, and while web scorpions and cat scorpions, aside with hornets, have succesfully hatched, I'm far from seeing a baby scorpion.

Also, why do wasps milk larvae blood?

:re-edit: my wasps started fighting each other, after killing a raving mad diplomat. I just checked, no new queens. So just WTF is happening?!
BTW I don't also have a swarmlord noble entry anymore (I've never put anyone on that title).

[than402]

:edit: Anyway, are royal scorpions' eggs suppose to ever hatch? I have those female scorpions sitting on their eggs since the start of this fort, and while web scorpions and cat scorpions, aside with hornets, have succesfully hatched, I'm far from seeing a baby scorpion.

bad luck maybe? male scorpions can't path to the female? as far as i know there's no way to define how long an egg takes to hatch. it also happened to me several times in vanilla with snakes, btw, so i'm not sure if it's the mod's fault, the male that can't path or a bug of the game

Also, why do wasps milk larvae blood?
[/quote]

i don't know... i did not design the larvae. but several of your creatures should be milkable for venom and the hornet bee for honey. weird... i might remove the venom milking altogether, by the way: it's next to unusable right now. anyone who wants to use poisons can use the poisonmaker for the next best thing.

:re-edit: my wasps started fighting each other, after killing a raving mad diplomat. I just checked, no new queens. So just WTF is happening?!

never attack diplomats and caravan guards of your own civilization. it will cause a loyalty cascade no matter which race you play

BTW I don't also have a swarmlord noble entry anymore (I've never put anyone on that title).

ok, i fixed this. they could only be appointed by a colonist, so if you got a hive leader before you appointed one, then you would be unable to appoint swarmlords.

[Sver]

Well, I just wanted to say that you're doing good, and playing Hive feels quite nicely.

And a little suggestion here. This possibly was already suggested/putted on your idea list, but whatever.
It would be really nice to give more pets to Hive, like giant stag and rhinoceros beetles, maybe even armorable. Giant locust would be really cool too (fast breeding, pulpy, but eating away everithing on the surface, from grass to animals and invaders).
I have nothing against spiders and scorpions, but they're quite... I don't know, mundane for the DF world? Adding more unique giant insects for Hive would really improve the atmosphere

[than402]

Well, I just wanted to say that you're doing good, and playing Hive feels quite nicely.

And a little suggestion here. This possibly was already suggested/putted on your idea list, but whatever.
It would be really nice to give more pets to Hive, like giant stag and rhinoceros beetles, maybe even armorable. Giant locust would be really cool too (fast breeding, pulpy, but eating away everithing on the surface, from grass to animals and invaders).
I have nothing against spiders and scorpions, but they're quite... I don't know, mundane for the DF world? Adding more unique giant insects for Hive would really improve the atmosphere

thanks

wasps already have several very powerful, very expensive war creatures but they could do with a few more medium priced animals. not as big and expensive as the scorpion, the slugsnake and the worm, but still significant. think cow sized beetle, for instance.

by the way, i had an idea:

biochemist's laboratory or something like that: laboratory and mutation reactions just don't feel right to me. why use souls to make a wasp stronger? why make a hive thrall out of meat and cement and use a soul to infect a slave with a larva? if wasps use biochemistry as a tool, we must add a bit more depth to it. with this workshop the player will be able to create various substances from animal pieces, plants and some boulders to be used on reactions where chemistry or biology is supposed to be involved. it will make waspen gameplay a bit more complex and will give the player a new motivation to care for his agriculture and import whatever he doesn't need. what do you guys say?

[Vitellozzo]

I always thought that wasps using souls were a little weird. After all is a matter of life, and that was good, but if you plan to add more "waspen trasformations" to simple things like crops and meat and leather and bone, it will follow the waspen gameplay and lore better than using souls necromantic-style.
And, after all, we already have brain essence which work in a similar manner (although brain essence only drop for our own civ members, so it's difficult to obtain). And wasps cannot store souls, so if you use them on a basis it's ok, if you don't start using them from the start here comes the difficulty about late game.

Also I like too the idea of "more waspen pets", like I was saying for the need of more pet mutations. More pets could give more utility to beasts, since for what I've seen the wasps don't have a butcherable reliable kind of pet: in many years of my fort, I've never butchered a single pet (also read as: most egg based pets are long to hatch or they never hatched to me). They don't need other fight pet, they just need big cow-like pets or small fast-breeding rat-like pets.
And this bring to another point of the post: my scorpions are in the very same room (not that just change anything, since spore breeding of v31...).
I've seen somewhere in the forums that egg breeding pets also need a special tag to make their eggs hatchable: since spiders work as intended, I don't think there should be problems in the code... but still, many years and no new scorpions.

ok, i fixed this. they could only be appointed by a colonist, so if you got a hive leader before you appointed one, then you would be unable to appoint swarmlords.

Yes, that was exactly the problem here.

[than402]

I always thought that wasps using souls were a little weird. After all is a matter of life, and that was good, but if you plan to add more "waspen trasformations" to simple things like crops and meat and leather and bone, it will follow the waspen gameplay and lore better than using souls necromantic-style.
And, after all, we already have brain essence which work in a similar manner (although brain essence only drop for our own civ members, so it's difficult to obtain). And wasps cannot store souls, so if you use them on a basis it's ok, if you don't start using them from the start here comes the difficulty about late game.

true, but still i'd like to keep souls for use in the shrine building and to call creatures (the former is supposed to represent a sacrifice to what they perceive as a god, and the latter reaction is supposed to be magical in nature). also, brain essence now has a 10% chance to drop from a larva corpse, but that's more like a bonus, not a viable essence source.

Also I like too the idea of "more waspen pets", like I was saying for the need of more pet mutations. More pets could give more utility to beasts, since for what I've seen the wasps don't have a butcherable reliable kind of pet: in many years of my fort, I've never butchered a single pet (also read as: most egg based pets are long to hatch or they never hatched to me). They don't need other fight pet, they just need big cow-like pets or small fast-breeding rat-like pets.

then how about a series of beetles that breed normally instead of hatching to be used for food? we'll think how we'll rationalize it later. they will still be able to be used as war animals in times of need, but they will be nowhere near as effective as the dedicated war creatures. we can also do something similar with the cockroaches: small, but breed quickly without laying eggs.

mutations will be overhauled (the new mutation lab will deal with hive thralls, though, not with animals)

And this bring to another point of the post: my scorpions are in the very same room (not that just change anything, since spore breeding of v31...).
I've seen somewhere in the forums that egg breeding pets also need a special tag to make their eggs hatchable: since spiders work as intended, I don't think there should be problems in the code... but still, many years and no new scorpions.

okay, i found the problem: royal scorpion and slugsnake are missing child tokens. that's why your eggs don't hatch.

[Vitellozzo]

true, but still i'd like to keep souls for use in the shrine building and to call creatures (the former is supposed to represent a sacrifice to what they perceive as a god, and the latter reaction is supposed to be magical in nature). also, brain essence now has a 10% chance to drop from a larva corpse, but that's more like a bonus, not a viable essence source.

Yes I've read it, but butcher a larva for just 1 meat and neither the 100% output to have a brain essence, I'm far from seeing why we should do this. Also, to butcher a larva do we have to pasture them on the workshop? Those informations could be vital on the manual btw.

then how about a series of beetles that breed normally instead of hatching to be used for food? we'll think how we'll rationalize it later. they will still be able to be used as war animals in times of need, but they will be nowhere near as effective as the dedicated war creatures. we can also do something similar with the cockroaches: small, but breed quickly without laying eggs.

mutations will be overhauled (the new mutation lab will deal with hive thralls, though, not with animals)

I love both rhino beetles AND cockroaches! Maybe cockroaches even more than anything else! Oh god I'd love to give my wasps fresh cockroach meat everyday forever and ever!
Also, I like that difference between Thralls and Animals... but maybe you could re-consider those aberrants and praetorians, since those are in fact cannon fodders!

okay, i found the problem: royal scorpion and slugsnake are missing child tokens. that's why your eggs don't hatch.

I knew it!
How to manually fix this problem, so I can use them in the last fort?

[than402]

Yes I've read it, but butcher a larva for just 1 meat and neither the 100% output to have a brain essence, I'm far from seeing why we should do this. Also, to butcher a larva do we have to pasture them on the workshop? Those informations could be vital on the manual btw.

because every now and then larvae die for various reasons. or, you may simply decide that you have enough wasps and don't need any more of them and want to butcher them. to butcher a larva, simply use v-p-s. the reactions to process the corpse are automatic and take place in the Waspen Mind. I shall update the manual to include these things.

I love both rhino beetles AND cockroaches! Maybe cockroaches even more than anything else! Oh god I'd love to give my wasps fresh cockroach meat everyday forever and ever!
Also, I like that difference between Thralls and Animals... but maybe you could re-consider those aberrants and praetorians, since those are in fact cannon fodders!

yeah, maybe these two should stick with the regular ones. praetorians, however, are in fact not cannon fodder. the problem is that since they're quite strong on their own, the upgrades for them would be both broken and would make the regular thralls completely unnecessary.

How to manually fix this problem, so I can use them in the last fort?

go to the entries of these creatures (SCORPION_WASP and SLUGSNAKE) and add [CHILD:2]

[Vitellozzo]

Yes but... 1 meat is really a low price for murdering a baby (not yet) civ member! They even don't give so much brain essence...

Maybe you can put different upgrades for aberrants and praetorians? I don't see them truly strong, since they are like a naked soldier wasp which cannot learn other skills.

go to the entries of these creatures (SCORPION_WASP and SLUGSNAKE) and add [CHILD:2]

Where, exactly? I've found the creature_hivemind_wasps.txt file, and I've found the beasts between the code lines, but I don't know where to put [child:2] tag.
Also, does it means that we need 2 years to fully grow babies into adults?

[than402]

Yes but... 1 meat is really a low price for murdering a baby (not yet) civ member! They even don't give so much brain essence...

Maybe you can put different upgrades for aberrants and praetorians? I don't see them truly strong, since they are like a naked soldier wasp which cannot learn other skills.

that's what you'd normally get from butchering one larva. i changed it because butchering them was causing a crash. i can't raise the brain essence yield, because that would make obtaining brain essences trivial. you won't need that many for your reactions to begin with, after all. i could raise their meat, but remember that you're not supposed to turn this into an industry. just a little extra for when you have extra larvae and you don't really need more wasps.

you should see the Colossal Praetorian. It gave some semimegabeasts a run for their money! and when i say a run for their money, i mean "murdered their asses by ripping off their heads with its bare teeth". Praetorians are like trolls, only stronger, with better stats and better healing. they are not weak at all, i can assure you that. and they're relatively cheap to obtain through the Shrine.

Where, exactly? I've found the creature_hivemind_wasps.txt file, and I've found the beasts between the code lines, but I don't know where to put [child:2] tag.
Also, does it means that we need 2 years to fully grow babies into adults?

putting them under the [SELECT_CASTE:ALL] will do. or under [PETVALUE]. and yes, that's what defines how long it takes for a creature to become an adult. what defines the size of the creature is the body size, which by the way you should change for the slugsnake. replace this

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

   [BODY_SIZE:0:0:50000]
   [BODY_SIZE:2:0:100000]
   [BODY_SIZE:5:0:400000]

with this in the slugsnake entry

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

   [BODY_SIZE:0:0:50000]
   [BODY_SIZE:1:0:100000]
   [BODY_SIZE:2:0:400000]

maybe the child period is too small, however?