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[heydude6]

I just read the manual for the first time today and I noticed something, The Purelungs laboratory upgrade removes a wasps need to breathe but at the current moment wasps don't have lungs, and they haven't suffocated in the arena, so they don't need to breathe.

[than402]

I actually agree with you on the siege/caravan callers, maybe have an infectory where a pastured slave gets a syndrome that eventually turns them into a wasp. I had observed that there was a bug where the script to kill them and draw sieges/caravans didn't work properly. thinking back and forward, this is something that would be nice to implement SOME WAY, but not this way

i'm glad we agree. let's make an infectory workshop when the reproduction system is done. and make them mature faster. that will make them viable for the meat and leather industries (which they lack, the only leather producing animals they have is the Slugsnake and the Colossal Mole). and if we make them trainable, they would make decent cannon fodder.

 the best way to implement drawing caravans and armies is by gold and such. which makes sense: you're basically paying for the expenses of the extra caravan or for agents to provoke the opponent (except for the whole "pay up front, send a huge ass army or caravan the next minute" part, but we can't have everything we want).

as for the reactions not working... yeah, i wasn't sure if they would work either.

EDIT: i had also written about turning them into "sacrificial victim" tools, but scratch that: they can already be butchered for souls, it's redundant and as it was shown from the podium and the torture chamber reactions, making a reaction take place through a creature interaction doesn't work very well

I just read the manual for the first time today and I noticed something, The Purelungs laboratory upgrade removes a wasps need to breathe but at the current moment wasps don't have lungs, and they haven't suffocated in the arena, so they don't need to breathe.

i totally forgot about that... well, fixed

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9734

EDIT#2: ok, i ran some tests with the new creatures, and hoo boy do i need to balance them! the tarrasque, a rhinoceros 10 times the size of an elephant, gores at something and... bruises a muscle! no, when that thing gores at you, it's supposed to bruise your eternal soul and the possibility that you ever existed, not your muscle! i'll also start working with the slave "pets" and with the new reactions (which seem horribly imbalanced and impractical)

[Meph]

Why is there a colossal rhino here? Last time I looked you were working on insects

I'd go with a colossal rhino bettle.

[Splint]

In the event the mod's DFHack dependants can keep up, the goring won't be an issue in the new version. Something the size of an ogre punching an unarmed dwarf ends with a pulped dwarf limb so that thing goring something would probably cave in thier entire body.

[than402]

Why is there a colossal rhino here? Last time I looked you were working on insects

I'd go with a colossal rhino bettle.

I was kinda sick of working with insects and figured adding some non insect summons may be a nice change of pace the other non insect summons are a lobster, an elemental and a very big mole. I had considered a beetle, but I postponed it until I find a use for it ( though a smaller beetle would be nice, wasps could do with another cheap pet)

In the event the mod's DFHack dependants can keep up, the goring won't be an issue in the new version. Something the size of an ogre punching an unarmed dwarf ends with a pulped dwarf limb so that thing goring something would probably cave in thier entire body.

we don't use dfhack very much. The only scripts used are the spawn unit and the cohort script. So yeah, porting it would be relatively easy.

[Splint]

A lot of other things in Masterwork, of which this appears to be geared as being a part of, do though and certain others may be partly broken, such as luring opposing armies to the hive/fort/whatever.

[than402]

well, luring armies most probably won't work. given that caravans don't appear to consist of historical figures, however, maybe luring caravan has a slim chance of working.

[slay_mithos]

"luring armies and caravans" definitely work, but it is still not certain if it will still be possible in DF40.x, so it would be nice not to base a new race on those for now.

[than402]

i mean they won't work in the next edition.indeed, they work in this edition (but not in this race, apparently).

[than402]

still working on balancing the new reactions. the summons now kick ass, and i lowered a lot of costs for the lab and for summoning monsters. i'm thinking that requiring a worker to move 70-200 items for a summon is balanced (they are capable of fending off raids, megabeasts and even small sieges all by themselves and have crazy recuperation rates) but a bit insane and impractical. it think i'm going to add reactions (and a workshop to run them) where you give units of meat, souls or leather and you produce "sacrifice reagents", which you use when summoning these creatures. this means that you can break gathering the reagents into a number of small reaction which can be run simultaneously, which makes expensive summons costly but far less frustrating.

i also have a question: is there a way to automatically run the misery script when a queen dies?

[heydude6]

Ok this post is going to be a long one

Ok I have a lot of bugs I want to report

• Many of the new creatures are missing the tag CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON, most notably the aberrants and praetorians
• With the body tokens for the wasps it should be [BODY:HUMANOID_4ARMS_HIVE:STINGER:2EYES:HEART:GUTS:OUTERBRAIN:BRAIN:MOUTH] not [BODY:HUMANOID_4ARMS:TAIL:STINGER:2EYES:HEART:GUTS:OUTERBRAIN:BRAIN:MOUTH]
  Remove the tail and add _HIVE to HUMANOID_4ARMS. This should be applied to abherrants and praetorians as well
• There is a mistake in the body_wasps.txt file
  
  Spoiler (click to show/hide)

  [BODY:STINGER]
     [BP:ST:stinger:stingers][CON:LB][INTERNAL][SMALL][CATEGORY:STINGER]
        [DEFAULT_RELSIZE:142]
  it should be this
   [BP:ST:stinger:stingers][CON:TL][INTERNAL][SMALL][CATEGORY:STINGER]
        [DEFAULT_RELSIZE:142]
• The queen fight queen interaction made the queens give each other both the crazed tags and crazed animals of the same species team up, I'm in the process of fixing it at the moment so don't worry about it

[than402]

• Many of the new creatures are missing the tag CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON, most notably the aberrants and praetorians

most of these are intentional, but the aberrants and the praetorians should indeed have it

• With the body tokens for the wasps it should be [BODY:HUMANOID_4ARMS_HIVE:STINGER:2EYES:HEART:GUTS:OUTERBRAIN:BRAIN:MOUTH] not [BODY:HUMANOID_4ARMS:TAIL:STINGER:2EYES:HEART:GUTS:OUTERBRAIN:BRAIN:MOUTH]
  Remove the tail and add _HIVE to HUMANOID_4ARMS. This should be applied to abherrants and praetorians as well

noted, but will it have any difference in combat?

• There is a mistake in the body_wasps.txt file
  
  Spoiler (click to show/hide)

  [BODY:STINGER]
     [BP:ST:stinger:stingers][CON:LB][INTERNAL][SMALL][CATEGORY:STINGER]
        [DEFAULT_RELSIZE:142]
  it should be this
   [BP:ST:stinger:stingers][CON:TL][INTERNAL][SMALL][CATEGORY:STINGER]
        [DEFAULT_RELSIZE:142]

thank you for pointing it out

• The queen fight queen interaction made the queens give each other both the crazed tags and crazed animals of the same species team up, I'm in the process of fixing it at the moment so don't worry about it

what i wanted to do with the interaction was to cause a loyalty cascade when such a fight began, but yeah. i didn't think this one through

thank you for pointing out these bugs, heydude. i shall upload a new file soon, and i shall include them there. by the way, since you're working on the queen's interactions, would you mind also finding a way to trigger the misery script upon death? i believe it will fit them well, and will also give the player a strong motive to protect the queen. not to mention it will make the game more FUN when she enters a mood.

[heydude6]

• With the body tokens for the wasps it should be [BODY:HUMANOID_4ARMS_HIVE:STINGER:2EYES:HEART:GUTS:OUTERBRAIN:BRAIN:MOUTH] not [BODY:HUMANOID_4ARMS:TAIL:STINGER:2EYES:HEART:GUTS:OUTERBRAIN:BRAIN:MOUTH]
  Remove the tail and add _HIVE to HUMANOID_4ARMS. This should be applied to abherrants and praetorians as well

noted, but will it have any difference in combat?

well the main thing I did was remove the breasts and I also renamed the upperbody and lowerbody to Upper thorax and lower thorax. I also added an abdomen (replaces the tail). The stinger connects to the abdomen. So technically the only effect on combat it had was remove 2 targets. But it adds a lot of flavour and polish

[than402]

lol, they had breasts? i never noticed that, good call. anyway, i put your body token.

i will upload the new version once i fix an exploit where you can produce infinite meat, leather and souls.

[than402]

new file is up! this time, few new things were added. i made a lot of mistakes in the last one, now i fixed at least most of them. next, i'm gonna update the manual and write and run test reactions to see which features work and which ones don't.

EDIT: i already started making progress and noticed a few bugs. thankfully, nothing that can't be fixed easily. i'll probably upload a new file tomorrow with all the dfhack features tested and a few more tweaks i made. after that, we can start running test forts and start working on the pet sprites.

EDIT#2: ran into a bug where the slaves drop something grey called "skin". i believe it's from the interactions, which i will remove because they serve no special purpose currently. as for the other issues... well, i made some progress, but nothing final yet. i think i know what i'm doing wrong, however, so there's that.